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Episode 8: Brooke Bachesta

B2B Tonight Transcript

Ryan O'Hara:

And we started. Don't forget, oh we're broadcasting now. Look at the people pour in Rishi, they love you.

Rishi Mathur:

I know. It's all for me.

Ryan O'Hara:

They're going to be disappointed when they can't see you, because your shirt matches with the couch.

Rishi Mathur:

Sometimes you have to go incognito.

Ryan O'Hara:

So as people are pouring in, I just want to say hi to everyone. Hope everyone's doing well and having a good summer given the circumstances that we're hiding under rocks and all that stuff.

Ryan O'Hara:

I'm going to tell a little backstory while we're waiting for people. Since March, I've been using the same gross mask for going to stores and going to the grocery store and all these places. And last week, I got a new mask for the first time, and oh my gosh, I look cool. It's blue, it makes my eyes pop.

Rishi Mathur:

Where is it?

Ryan O'Hara:

It's in my car, in the driveway outside. I keep it in the car in case I have to go somewhere so I don't forget to not have a mask or something.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah, I got a new one, it makes me look like Shredder from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Ryan O'Hara:

Dude, that's so cool man.

Rishi Mathur:

I know.

Ryan O'Hara:

Thank you. Someone said happy birthday to me. Thank you very much, I really appreciate it Ed.

Rishi Mathur:

Aww.

Ryan O'Hara:

What's up Ed? A couple things while we're getting started and letting people join in. This will be recorded. Nick, who's our host of this webinar, you can't see him, but he's in the background. Nick's going to be cutting and editing this thing tonight and it will be emailed out to all you guys tomorrow. Hopefully by the end of the day, if not you'll get it Monday. But there will be a recording.

Ryan O'Hara:

Rishi, do you want to talk about chat and using questions and stuff for Brooke?

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah, that's right. So if anyone has any questions, you can ask it in the Q&A section, or you can put it in the chat and Brooke will answer it. That's basically it. Anyone has any questions any time, just ask it away.

Ryan O'Hara:

I'll ask you a question Rishi.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah, go for it.

Ryan O'Hara:

How's your relationship with your dad?

Rishi Mathur:

It's okay. Why do we have to go there?

Ryan O'Hara:

No, I just want to know, is that too personal?

Rishi Mathur:

I mean in Arizona 1994 he went to go play video games, I haven't seen him since. That's how it usually goes, right?

Ryan O'Hara:

For people that are new to B2B Tonight what we do, is we like to do a bit before we start the show, just to make it more entertaining, and kind of get a little looser and stuff so that we're interviewing Brooke, we can kind of be a little bit more informal, and just ask stuff and have it be real. We're going to actually do a bit this week, I don't know a lot of people know this, Rishi used to do cold-calling at Yext. Rishi, what was that job like?

Rishi Mathur:

It was a lot of smiling and dialing.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, that's kind of how it was setup. Back then, it wasn't as strategic on your outreach, right?

Rishi Mathur:

Not at all. So basically it was inbound leads, and we just clicked in, and also they didn't use Salesforce, they had their own internal system. So we just dialed in, called, talked to them, if they picked up and then moved on. Just kept moving.

Ryan O'Hara:

Rishi decided to do something a little cool for this week for a little bit. You want to talk about it Rishi? What did you do?

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah. So Ryan asked me, he said, "Hey, I don't think you know much about business." Hence one of my shows called Rishi Doesn't Know S About Business. He told me I need to start doing more cold-calling and outreach. So I said, "You know what, for a day I'll do it." I actually recorded it. Do you want to take a look at it Ryan?

Ryan O'Hara:

Let's take a listen, let's see how it is.

Rishi Mathur:

What's up everybody. I'm Rishi Mathur with LeadIQ. A lot of you may know me from sketches we do such as Sales: The Musical, The Drift Infomercial, and Sexy Time with B2B Tonight. But, today I'll be cold-calling in quarantine. The first call is to a Mr. John Silver.

Speaker 3:

Long John Silvers, can I help you?

Rishi Mathur:

Hello, Mr. Silver?

Speaker 3:

Long John Silvers.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah, is there a John Silver here?

Speaker 3:

This is the restaurant Long John Silvers, can I take your order?

Rishi Mathur:

Oh okay, no I'm good man. I don't really like your place. Thank you, bye. Hey, Frankie, what's up Frank-meister. This is Rishi from LeadIQ, got a second to talk?

Speaker 3:

No.

Rishi Mathur:

Nope. They hung up, okay. Hey Amar, this is Rishi from LeadIQ, how's it going?

Speaker 3:

Good.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah, I noticed your team was on LinkedIn, and is hiring sales reps, which usually means you're trying to grow your pipeline. Have you ever considered looking to LeadIQ to make them more productive?

Speaker 3:

I'm pretty sure we already are.

Rishi Mathur:

Huh, okay.

Speaker 3:

Is this a cold call? Do you know that we are-

Rishi Mathur:

You know what, I already knew you were a customer. This is just a courtesy call to find out how you're doing. No problem, I'll get you on a call with our support team. They can handle this much better than I can. Okay, thank you, bye.

Rishi Mathur:

So you have limitation on your software security protocol with vendors, correct?

Speaker 3:

That was correct. I sent over some documentation if you want to take a look at.

Rishi Mathur:

Mm-hmm (affirmative), yep, yep. Real cool. Yep, yep, yep, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

Speaker 3:

[crosstalk 00:04:38]

Rishi Mathur:

I can't hear you, must be a tunnel or something. I can't really hear what you're saying now. Okay, yeah, yeah. Correct, correct, correct. And found it.

Speaker 3:

Are we on the same page? Is something wrong?

Rishi Mathur:

Nothing, nothing, don't worry about it.

Speaker 4:

Your call has been forwarded to an automated voice messaging system.

Rishi Mathur:

Voicemail, very important to leave one. Hey Steve, this is Rishi from LeadIQ. I sent you an email the other day about your recent promotion and want to see if you're looking to simplify your reps workflow with-

Speaker 5:

Rishi, lunch.

Rishi Mathur:

I'm on a call.

Speaker 5:

Rishi, did you hear me? Lunch.

Rishi Mathur:

I'm not hungry, I'm on a call. Thank you. Yes.

Laurie:

Perfect, we're booked.

Rishi Mathur:

Sounds good. I'll see you Thursday Laurie, yes thank you for your time.

Laurie:

Thank you for yours.

Rishi Mathur:

No, thank you. I appreciate it, bye. Woo, I'm a savage. Yeah, hello? Hello? Hey, yeah, yep Laurie, sorry about that, see you Thursday, mm-hmm (affirmative), yep.

Ryan O'Hara:

All right.

Rishi Mathur:

So it went pretty well.

Ryan O'Hara:

Rishi, I think I saw two meetings booked there. That's pretty good.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah, it wasn't bad. I'm probably just a natural.

Ryan O'Hara:

Oh, good for you dude. Good for you. So this next guest probably doesn't need an introduction if you've seen her. I did a panel with her last year at one of the Outreach roadshows and I literally wrote down in my phone after the panel, Brooke Bachesta, cool shit. And that's what I wrote, because she had some really great stuff on building sequences, and how to be a modern sales rep and stuff. And I thought, what better than to get Brooke on a show with B2B Tonight.

Ryan O'Hara:

So today, to answer all our questions about sequences and stuff. Let's say hi to Brooke. I assume that it's going to take a second to get her promoted in. But you'll see her in a second. It's going to be amazing. And here she is. Coming live from I believe you're in Washington State. What's up Brooke?

Brooke Bachesta:

Hey. Thanks for having me.

Ryan O'Hara:

Hey, so we've got the masses here. The people are asking. They want to know about sequences a little bit. Brooke, tell people a little about your background if they don't know. How did you get involved in sales development?

Brooke Bachesta:

Sure. Yeah, so I got involved in sales development pretty much on accident, which I think is how a lot of people get into sales. I graduated college with a degree in English, and I was like I don't know what I want to do. I applied to a bunch of jobs, got a call back from a sales position, and then fortunately, landed an SDR position in the Bay area, first shot out of college. Decided that I really liked it. Very cool. Input, output. It was very clear. The harder you worked, the more you get out of it. It was pretty process driven, you get to compete. But also be on a team.

Brooke Bachesta:

So anyways, fast forward a couple years, worked my way up to an AE, then as a manager, and I've been at Outreach as a manager here for a little over two years. And I'm based here in the Seattle area, which normally is where headquarters is, but COVID.

Ryan O'Hara:

Is it scary to run a team of prospectors when you're at a company that sells to prospectors? Is that kind of weird?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, it's kind of a double-edge sword. We have a lot of tools, and we get to use our own platform, and sometimes you run into situations where sales people are like, "Okay, I get the drill. I understand, you're fresh out of school and you're making cold-calls." So there's some empathy there. But there's also, we're held to a high standard. If you are cold-calling, and selling software that helps you do that, you better be on your game. On the positive side, it really helps us level up our teams professionalism.

Rishi Mathur:

By the way Brooke, did you know, this is a very special episode of B2B Tonight? I kind of want to make this note. Today is Ryan's birthday, so this is Ryan's birthday episode.

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh my gosh. Happy birthday.

Ryan O'Hara:

I'm 33 years-old. Look at what I've accomplished and what I've become. So Brooke, let me ask you something, you guys basically will go through and talk with people and cold-call and cold-email and stuff. How many sequences are your reps usually running?

Brooke Bachesta:

Like how many do we have within Outreach, or how many would somebody have active at any given time?

Ryan O'Hara:

I'm a little interested in both answers actually. You set yourself up.

Brooke Bachesta:

I know, that was dumb. In Outreach, there's hundreds. Probably 250 plus that exist that reps can use. And that's paired down from back in the day when it was Wild West and people could just create their own sequences and clone things, and it got really out of hand, and there was thousands. And David Plutschak, who's our content specialist, he's amazing. He's gone through and cleaned out a bunch of those. And now the only people who can create a sequence are I think it actually might just be David. So there's one source of content creation.

Brooke Bachesta:

And then in SDR, it's kind of dependent per segment. So we have an SMB team, a mid market team that I lead, and then an enterprise squad, and each of them probably have 25-ish sequences that they might use. And then as far as number of prospects that are active, between 250 and 400, kind of depending on your segment. So lower segment SMB folks might have a lot more just because they have more accounts, and then a bit less as you move up segment. Does that make sense?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, yeah. So with your team, your reps obviously have named accounts they work in mid market?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, so when everybody starts, you get roughly 250 named accounts, and then it's their job to go in there and find people on LinkedIn, and then add them to their bucket.

Ryan O'Hara:

I think I remember talking to Andrew Mayborne, or Mewborne about this a little bit. You guys actually have to get a couple nos before you take a company out, right? Because you might influence and talk to a different department and get a bite there, right?

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh yeah, we have been recycling accounts for years. Unless an entire company has blacklisted us from reaching out, or specifically said please don't ever call us again, it's very unlikely that an SDR wouldn't continue to try and research and build a relationship there and get us in the door.

Ryan O'Hara:

The good news is Rishi isn't on your team, so I don't think that probably happens that often. I've been trying to get Rishi to stop contacting me all the time, yet he's still here. Why are you on this Zoom Rishi? How did this happen?

Rishi Mathur:

I like being on Zooms.

Ryan O'Hara:

That's just truth that you learned on Zooms.

Rishi Mathur:

[inaudible 00:11:08]

Ryan O'Hara:

So you guys are going through and reaching out to all these people. You got 250 accounts or something. Is that through the year? When do you recycle the accounts? When do you reshuffle the account names?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, so ideally you wouldn't shuffle them a lot, because it does take some time to get your feet and claws into an account, and really understand what's going on there. But that being said, SDRs move a lot, just internally we'll move people up, following the segment is kind of their career path as well, so you work your way up from smaller accounts, to working larger ones. And I have new people on my team every single month. So there is kind of a natural recycling, if you get promoted off of emerging a new hire will take your bucket of accounts, then you'll move on to work corporate accounts. And then we're constantly trying to add more accounts to our Salesforce so that things aren't getting stale.

Brooke Bachesta:

So if I were to attach a number I'd say you probably work the same accounts for like six months, right now.

Ryan O'Hara:

I talked to, do you know Justin Michael? He's on LinkedIn, he's a SVP of sales at UV, I'm saying his name wrong, he's going to judge me. Oh no. Justin's cool, go follow him on LinkedIn. I was talking to him earlier today, and one of the things he was mentioning on the podcast that we did was reps will go and use Outreach, but they don't really use all the features of a sequence. Like for example, you might just use it for power emailing or power dialing or something. There are so many more steps you can do in a sequence. What's the trigger at your company for, and what should most companies be doing to make a sequence? Is it framed around ... What makes a sequence? What's like, yeah this is a sequence? Is it specifically something?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, that's a good question. I think making a sequence, the intent there, at least from my perspective is to expand what you would normally do as a human to get in touch with somebody. Because there's a lot of other tools you can use out there. If you just wanted to make robo-dials, if you just wanted to blast out emails, but it's meant to replicate how people actually get in touch. Ryan, if you and I were going to hang out, and you didn't show up, I'd probably text you and be like ... Or if we were planning, be like, "Hey, Ryan, what's going on?" I text you, because I'm not a psycho, I'm not going to robo-dial you 100 times in that day. I'll probably wait a week to get in touch with you. And then as we move through time, the cadence of my reaching out will become more and more frequent to be like, "Oh my God are you alive?" Then I'll probably call Rishi, be like, "What's going on? I haven't heard back."

Rishi Mathur:

He's dead.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, he hates you and doesn't want to hang out anymore. It's just him ghosting you.

Ryan O'Hara:

This is classic Rishi, classic Rishi. I just want to have a catch with you Rishi. For example, at Outreach, when you have a sequence that you make, are they usually a specific type of industry or buyer or role? What's the breakdown?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, so I usually like to think of a sequence as this is your framework. The skeleton. And we actually break ours out into four different main types of sequences, and there's multiple. There's LinkedIn, Sendoso, calls and emails, texting built into all of these. The four main types would be automated, which is exactly what it sounds like, a call heavy one, which is almost entirely all calls or only calls. Say somebody unsubscribed or you have a rep who's just really strong on the phone and you want to juice some more dials in there. Then there's manual, which is like a Mad Libs style, like if you follow Sam Nelson, blue hair man from LinkedIn, in Outreach he talks a lot about his Agoge Sequence and it's kind of like JV personalizing. The middle is already written, the ask is already written, but then it would say like, "Enter your personalization here. And make it match that."

Ryan O'Hara:

Can I ask you something specifically about that? Not to ruin your flow.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah.

Ryan O'Hara:

We do that at LeadIQ, everything we do here has to be personalized, because that's what we teach people to do with prospecting, how do you physically do it? I try to do carets, and it disappears, I try to put giant letters for the SDR to be like, "Use personalization." To remind them. What's the most effective way to get your SDR to actually do it? So they don't actually send an email with the text that says personalization or something, you know what I mean?

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh, I think if you put the little, at least in Outreach the squiggly brackets, two on each side, and then words-

Ryan O'Hara:

Squiggly like the tilled symbol, is that what you mean?

Brooke Bachesta:

No.

Ryan O'Hara:

The one over the tab button? You're looking at your keyboard.

Brooke Bachesta:

I'm literally looking at my keyboard. It's above the return button on a Mac. Shift.

Ryan O'Hara:

Oh, slash, the slash thing.

Brooke Bachesta:

No, no, no, not the slash. Squiggly, I feel so dumb. If I put it-

Ryan O'Hara:

Oh squiggly parenthesis [crosstalk 00:15:45]

Rishi Mathur:

The bracket, the squiggly bracket.

Ryan O'Hara:

The bracket, bracket. Okay, okay.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan O'Hara:

Thank you. Thank you Brooke.

Brooke Bachesta:

Thank you Gabriela.

Rishi Mathur:

Gabriela really stepped in.

Ryan O'Hara:

Gabriela's the hero we need.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, seriously. Anyways, if you put squiggly brackets on the side, and then the words inside don't match, first underscore name, or prospect underscore name, and it just says, "Insert personalization here." It will error message and it won't let you send it. It will save you from yourself.

Ryan O'Hara:

Whoa. That's a huge, huge innovation that I did not know about. Everyone take that down if you're using sequencing and stuff. Use that symbol-

Brooke Bachesta:

I mean you can still override it, if you're really stubborn about it, but it will at least be like, "Are you sure you want to be here?"

Ryan O'Hara:

I actually read about someone on LinkedIn posted that they had said something where they kept the dynamic field in, and then they called people and used that as the cadence of their call. So they would be like, "Oh, I accidentally sent this." And just completely goofed it up.

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh, that's kind of crafty. Did it work?

Ryan O'Hara:

I don't think it worked, I think they just said that they did it.

Brooke Bachesta:

Made them look silly.

Ryan O'Hara:

So you'll make sequences for your team for example, you guys are going after mid market, what do you do it by? Do you do it by industry or by role? What's the most-

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's the three types, like automated, calls, manual, which is the template, and then personalized, which is totally a blank slate. And then you might have one of those sequences for each persona. For us, our naming convention will be corporate, because that's the name of my segment, corporate, manual sales leadership. Corporate manual marketing. And all the first emails are very close to the same. The only difference in all those, persona messaging, the bumps will be related to what that persona cares about. But the expectation is that you personalize the first email.

Ryan O'Hara:

When you guys build these things do you start with emailing or call or what's the thing you do first?

Brooke Bachesta:

We start with an email and then follow up with a call the same day so your email can be your script of I just got this person on the phone, what am I talking about with them?

Rishi Mathur:

Is there a particular reason you guys start with email?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, it's mostly to force, you have to personalize, and if you're smiling and dialing, the first dial won't be in a sequence. You would have had to create a manual call task for that. So that in SDR when you're rolling through your call tasks, if you ever get lost and you're like wait, what am I supposed to talk to Ryan about? It will be in your first touch to them.

Rishi Mathur:

Gotcha.

Ryan O'Hara:

One of the things that we do at our team, we'll make the first step of every sequence to look at the person's LinkedIn profile, and we'll write we'll make a LinkedIn say view profile, and then the notes it says write five notes down about them, that are common talking points. The reason we do that is because when the rep gets to step five or six in the sequence, we don't want them wasting time going back to LinkedIn and re-reading stuff and losing that step if they're doing a call or an email.

Ryan O'Hara:

And then what you do on our end, if you do a couple different touches of one talking point, and it doesn't work, you have your next talking point ready to go and loaded, ready to talk about and stuff.

Brooke Bachesta:

Clutch.

Ryan O'Hara:

Do you use templates, or just sequences for stuff? Do you have isolated templates that a rep can use free will to punch in or something?

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh yeah, for sure. If the sequence is your skeleton of okay this is the persona that I'm reaching out to, then the template can act as your play, so the template might be we have a connection in common. Or you just hired somebody, or you just received funding, and then all those are pre-written and you just slot it into step one of the personalized email, and then it just bumps it throughout.

Ryan O'Hara:

So some ideas for people listening, another thing you can do is build your sequences around different triggers that you find. I actually did a webinar with Science and Outreach about using sequences with buyer intent data and stuff. You could technically, like let's say you make a sequence for SDR managers that are hiring and your trigger is that you saw that they were hiring or something. That becomes a whole framework for who you add to that sequence, and then you reach out to those people, like-minded, you don't really have to change all the value prompts, because the problems they're dealing with are the same. Scaling, hitting activity goals, prospecting. That's for us, but if you're listening to this, and you're in HR, maybe you're looking at companies that are hiring recruiters, that probably means they're hiring. Or hiring is always a good example for basic stuff, but there's random triggers that you can do on that end.

Ryan O'Hara:

The other things that interesting, that I think I remember hearing that you guys will do, is you'll actually go into, you'll verticalize some stuff too right? Won't you look at what industry someone's in? We don't do that, we should, but we don't.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, I think there's so many, well we don't have teams that are set aside for vertical. So people on my team could be calling anybody regardless of the vertical that they're in, but there are some that we've seen a ton of success with, and we have a lot of referrals and it's very relationship based, like sports is a really good example of that. The entertainment, sports industry is very tight-knit and there's a lot of name dropping works very well there. So we wrote stuff specifically for them. Other than that, I think we'd probably skew towards templates, otherwise as a new rep, it gets really confusing if you're like, "What is the exact name for the sequence for this person." You know what I mean?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, and most of the people that you have on your team are these people coming out of college and stuff, right?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, yeah.

Ryan O'Hara:

Or it's their first job in tech or something, right?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, and they might be a veteran because they've been at Outreach for six months and promoted on the mid market or enterprise.

Ryan O'Hara:

One of the things I think that people don't talk about is when you work at company that's growing really fast, you can be there for a couple months, and because you build head counts so quickly, you're the person who's been through a lot, because there's so many more people. I remember that use to happen when I was at Dyn, there would be people that would come in and it would be like we had 90 people, then a month later we'd have 130, and the people that were there at the 90 mark that we hired are the grizzled vet, and they've really only been there for a couple months.

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh, I know.

Rishi Mathur:

It's happening with me here. I'm known as a relic. Who am I anymore?

Ryan O'Hara:

Rishi, you're still not allowed to make eye contact with anyone at the office. Please look down.

Rishi Mathur:

I'm sorry.

Ryan O'Hara:

Thanks dude. You know what's funny, your camera is like, your screen, you're looking at your screen your camera is a little above, but it probably is going to look like you're not making eye contact and being shy.

Rishi Mathur:

I was told not to.

Ryan O'Hara:

So Brooke, we talked a little bit about, starting with email, I like starting with email too, because if you do something really cool, especially if it's one of those manual emails you're typing, you can bring up the thing you did in your cold call, right?

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh, 100%, yeah. And it's also good, and you can refer back to it. Say somebody never opened your email. I suppose you could send them the same thing over again, but then at least you got a record about what have I talked to you with this person? Or what did I find. There's probably ways to recycle what you've found.

Ryan O'Hara:

What do you guys do with social? How do you fit social into your sequences?

Brooke Bachesta:

We have a lot of LinkedIn views and engaging with comments. We used to say send a LinkedIn sales navigator message, use that as a pretty heavy part of our sequencing, but we just found that you're limited, people don't always read them, you mine as well just send an email and try and find something they posted and then comment on it. So we skew to that a lot heavier.

Brooke Bachesta:

We also have, there's a gal named Amy, and she's our outbound sales coordinator, which is a job we made up last summer. And she's not quota carrying, she doesn't make calls. She's kind of like the behind the scenes stage manager. So she's working with marketing. She's working to route anything that comes into 1-800-Outreach or sales@outreach.com or .io, and [inaudible 00:23:39] the right people.

Ryan O'Hara:

Okay, some day you'll get it. You know who owns the domain is Microsoft. Microsoft owns the domain.

Brooke Bachesta:

For outreach.com?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, and they're one of your investors. I'm really surprised they haven't given it to you.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, I thought it was a nonprofit thing, because I have gone to it many times.

Ryan O'Hara:

I've looked before, because I was curious, why don't they have .com? It doesn't make any sense.

Brooke Bachesta:

You know, got to be hip and tech start-uppy.

Rishi Mathur:

It's the new trend, io baby.

Brooke Bachesta:

.ly, yeah.

Ryan O'Hara:

LeadIQ was a .io originally. So you have the sales coordinator, they go through-

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh yeah, sorry. I got distracted. And she actually goes through and follows influencers, so Sam Nelson, or Jeremy Donovan, or Beck Holland, Laurie Richardson, and just stalks to see what they're posting and who's engaging. And then if there's a lot of people commenting on one thing, she'll grab that, grab the link to it, and then input it into a custom field in Salesforce that says, "Hey, here's all the research I found." And then it will cue up a task for the SDR to be like, "Yo, our super secret spy Amy has been looking around the internet and found this somehow related to your prospect."

Ryan O'Hara:

So little interesting thing we do with LeadIQ, it doesn't fit for the structure for you, because your reps individually aren't making sequences, but if you're on this and you're an SDR or an AE and you want to make sequences yourself and your company is cool with that, one of the things that we'll do is we'll actually use LeadIQ, go to a post of someone that might be an influencer. Let's say Kevin Dorsey, let's say Kevin Dorsey does a post, and you want to go prospect people that let's say you sell the sales, and you want to go after people that like Kevin Dorsey, you probably have influencers in your space by the way if you're not in sales. There's marketing, there's all kinds of people that engage with those things and stuff too. You can actually open LeadIQ and go through the likes, and capture them into a prospect list, and then you filter through your ICP.

Ryan O'Hara:

Because for example LeadIQ, we really want to work with people that are 200 to 2,000 employees. That's our sweet spot for awesome prospect, that's for taking time. People that are lower than that, and you're all going to get emailed after this so now you know what's going on. The people that are on this that are under 200 will actually try and push you to self signup. And it's mainly because the people that are under 200 it's like Groundhog Day. The deals are the same over and over again.

Ryan O'Hara:

Anyway, point is, you go, you grab everybody that liked it, save it to a prospect list, filter through based on company counting stuff, and then you can actually build a sequence around the topic that Kevin Dorsey was talking about. And that's kind of similar to what you were talking about that Amy does.

Brooke Bachesta:

Cool.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, it's not bad. And the response rates really high, because as a rep you can actually editorialize your own opinion. I make it manual a little bit and be like, "I think this about what Kevin Dorsey said." Because Kevin might say, "Don't send attachments in an email." And you might say, "I've actually had some success sending attachments, here's an example of one I've been sending to people." And you might say that in the cold email. Now you're giving value to the prospect, while still being able to work that person. So there's little things like that-

Brooke Bachesta:

And having the opinion part is so clutch, because a lot of times people will send emails with this book report of here's all the things that I found, and I'm like, "All right, what's it to you." I want to hear what you think about these things, we can talk about it.

Ryan O'Hara:

The thing that I think a lot of reps don't think about is your Outreach reps for example are probably talking to more sales leaders on a regular day than the average bear. And think of all the cool stories they're collecting when they're on these calls with people. Finding out about their situations. I'm literally like, listen to everything you're telling, and my head's zooming thinking about what we need to go do now.

Ryan O'Hara:

Your reps are doing this every day with tons of other people and other companies, no offense to Outreach, some with even bigger sales teams.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, yeah, no, there's a lot of exposure.

Rishi Mathur:

I'm offended on her end. No offense Brooke, I got offended.

Ryan O'Hara:

What did you say Rishi?

Rishi Mathur:

I said I'm offended. Oh by the way, I just want to make an announcement that if people do have questions, just to remind them Q&A and chat you can ask it.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, don't be shy. Brooke will answer any question you want.

Brooke Bachesta:

It's true.

Ryan O'Hara:

I'm trying to figure out-

Brooke Bachesta:

Personal questions.

Ryan O'Hara:

... why am I here, what's my purpose? What have I done with my life at 33? This is getting dark. As we're going through, thank you for doing that Rishi, I appreciate that. So some of the SDRs will work marking qualified leads. After this webinar, we'll probably put people in a sequence, what's the process like? How do you do that? How's that set up? Is that you, or is that the content marketing person you mentioned earlier? Who sets up [crosstalk 00:27:57]

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, it's a big team effort. We actually have two teams at Outreach. We have an outbound SDR team, which is 50 plus people, and then we have our inbound MDR, Market Development Reps, just a team of four, and they don't own any accounts per se, but any time a lead comes in that's under a certain threshold, like it's a smaller account that we wouldn't have a named SDR assigned to go hunt, it gets queued up to them in a round robin fashion. And then there's all kinds of automated sequences that they can run. And then on our side, since we're mostly outbound, and you have your book of business and then it's on you as the rep to go find people, and get them engaged, but let's say you have a prospect from one of your named accounts engage with a piece of account, or request a demo, we do have several sequences written for that.

Brooke Bachesta:

Marketing a set of triggers with Marketo to let us know when something receives enough points and becomes an MQL and it should automatically trigger a task that says they attended this, this is what put them over the line. Here's a suggested sequence that you might want to use, and the sequences are built around if it's a large enough webinar, that might get its own sequence. If it's just general content syndication, it would have a more generic sequence. And then if it's something really juicy like a demo request it's like red alert, automated email goes out to say hi I'm your person, I'm going to get in touch with you in a second, and then several tasks get queued up for the SDR.

Ryan O'Hara:

When you're using that automation, are reps calling right away when someone does that. So they send the automated email saying, "Hey I'm going to reach out to you." And then it's a call. Is that what happens afterward?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, and they're usually pretty incentivized to get people ... Oh, there's my dad.

Rishi Mathur:

I love the stutter step, like he realized he's on camera.

Brooke Bachesta:

I know, it was very sweet of him. What were you asking me now?

Ryan O'Hara:

So you were saying they get incentivized to cold-call someone [crosstalk 00:29:59]

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh yeah, because obviously they have a demo request. They're like, "Man, I want to get this person booked today." So there are calls and emails built into that, but an SDR will usually somebody like that on a hit list, which is like they'll star them in Outreach, or they'll make a spreadsheet that just says, "These are the people that I'm calling three times a day every day for the next month until I get ahold of them."

Ryan O'Hara:

I know one of the things that we couldn't do for this episode is we wanted to get a little bit more data on some stuff, but it's kind of hard to do right now with everything. Do you know, what should be a benchmark for a good sequence reply rate, or response rate? Do you have any, what's the bar at Outreach where this sequence sucks, we're retiring it, versus this sequence is working great. What's that bar, what do you know?

Brooke Bachesta:

I know the Agoge sequence gets a 4% reply rate, which is good, and I think if you're above a 20 or 30% at least open rate that means people care enough to at least look at it. That's a good question on retiring them, and I probably have to ask David, who actually does all the A/B testing for sequences. Typically, we let it run for a full quarter before we make any decisions around okay this sucks, or we need to make more of them.

Ryan O'Hara:

We just redid our ... Jillian Clancy who's our SDR Manager and I have been working on our get started sequence, which is basically someone raises their hand and says "I want to try LeadIQ." It's our sequence we use to reach out to people. Our response rates on the first one we did, which was she did it really quickly to get one done, was in the mid-60s range for percentage, which is really good for inbound, I think. I think, I don't know. The thing that replace-

Brooke Bachesta:

It does sound good.

Ryan O'Hara:

What we used to do, is we used to have someone come to the site and fill out a Chili Piper. But what was happening is, or chili pepper, not piper. Whoops. What was happening is when they filled out the calendar-

Brooke Bachesta:

Piper, I think it is.

Rishi Mathur:

It is Piper.

Ryan O'Hara:

Oh okay, okay, I'm good.

Rishi Mathur:

It's not chili pepper.

Ryan O'Hara:

Oh my gosh, this is what happens. The thing that really kind of stunk though is we were basically taking up reps time with calendars that weren't qualified yet. So we came up with this idea of like, let's have them auto add to a sequence and have it so that reps come in in the morning and they're ready to go.

Ryan O'Hara:

How quickly does a rep have to call a lead when it comes in? What's the bar where it's like you're going to reach this lead, and if you don't it's going to someone else?

Brooke Bachesta:

[inaudible 00:32:26] they should at least get something within five minutes.

Rishi Mathur:

I think Brooke's glitching Ryan.

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh no. What if I turn off my video?

Ryan O'Hara:

That's all right, you'll be back. You'll be back in a second. Yeah, I think you said five minutes, right?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah. And the automation should take over, because if something done from a different time zone, you're not at your computer, that would suck to have that be the reason somebody never responded to you. But then there's other steps that get queued up in there. Manual emails or actual physical phone calls. And if they don't do that within a day, then they can lose the lead.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, that makes sense. So what's-

Brooke Bachesta:

And we have ... Oh go ahead.

Ryan O'Hara:

Oh sorry, no go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I want to hear, go ahead.

Brooke Bachesta:

We have a pretty intensive spot auditing system where they have the automation in [inaudible 00:33:14] they should also get an email, then we have two reports that we run in Salesforce, one is for brand new leads, and one is for working leads that you have not done anything with in a week to be like did you just do the first email and then forget about it, or are you actually doing your due diligence? And we have [inaudible 00:33:33]

Rishi Mathur:

Wait, did Brooke cut out on my end?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, yeah, it's all right. Brooke, we're losing you for a second.

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh no. I'm so sorry.

Ryan O'Hara:

I'll speak for Brooke anyway. Rishi, I am terribly uncomfortable with you being in this meeting. Just kidding, just kidding. You'll be back in a sec. It will stabilize in a second.

Rishi Mathur:

What if Ryan just does both sides of the conversation now?

Ryan O'Hara:

So I'll say something while it's getting stable and stuff. Don't sweat it, it's cool Brooke. This stuff happens. We're all working from home.

Brooke Bachesta:

I appreciate your patience.

Rishi Mathur:

By the way Brooke, no worries, I blame Nick for this, if that's any ...

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, Nick our producer. Yeah, thanks Nick. While that's happening and people are listening and stuff, you're back in a sec, I can tell right now. One topic I was thinking of going into and talking about is actually followup. How do you structure followup messaging? Listen, one of the most popular LinkedIn posts that you'll see over and over again is people being like, "Don't use the word followup. Just following up, don't say that stuff in posts." Everyone says it, all these influencers, all these people that teach sales say that. Don't say just checking in. Don't waste text on that type of messaging. What's Outreach do? What are your customers doing? What's the insight you can offer? What's actually a good followup thing to do?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, well, I think thinking about the just checking in, we actually ran an experiment on this, it must have been early last summer, so a long, long time ago. But it's under Mark Kosoglow Sales Bro versus Sales Pro, and we found that-

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, I saw that video.

Brooke Bachesta:

You actually get decent reply rates when you say, "Just checking in." Which is so counterintuitive to everything that I've ever thought. So that was interesting. You can always A/B test it if any of you all are curious and have Outreach. For our followup, we have a couple things. So there's the followup of you had an opportunity and the opportunity died for whatever reason. We have a whole sequence called Pick Up the Conversation. Which just prompts the SDR, it says "Find the notes of what happened in the last opportunity." And say like, "Hi Rishi, we spoke, insert date, you mentioned that this was a priority of yours." And then you have to find something new like, "I see that you're hiring on LinkedIn again, so I wanted to reach out [crosstalk 00:35:48]"

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah, for a VP of marketing.

Ryan O'Hara:

What? That's really good Rishi, that's good.

Brooke Bachesta:

And then you would input that there, and then it bumps it a couple times. We also do this thing called a reply followup or F-E-P FEP, like if somebody opened a sequence or they replied to you once, and then they went dark, we basically treat it as net-new prospecting, and referencing that you've spoken before, or that they've requested content in the past, we don't consider that as a good enough reason to actually bother somebody. So it's like that can be your foot in the door, but you also have to have additional research on top, if that makes sense.

Ryan O'Hara:

Do you have it so that, this is something I've always wanted to know. I do this when I was a prospector, I did this, but back in the day Outreach didn't exist, so back then it was like you're using a Yesware or ToutApp or one of those Cirrus Insight and you just get little things-

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh yeah, I was a big Tout user.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, me too, me too. It would just give you a little alert that someone opened your email or something. Do you just call when that happens? Is that what you do with your reps? And does it work? That's what I used to do, is it the same thing with sequences too?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, 100%. They get the little notifications on the side of their screen that says so and so just opened your email, and they'll usually if they're not in a meeting, drop what they're doing to go call that person, because it usually means that they're not in a meeting, or if they are, they're running in between things. I would say at their desk, but everybody's at their desk all the time now.

Ryan O'Hara:

What do you do with, you call, what's the call like? What do you say? Hey, I saw you opened my email? You can, because you're Outreach, because you'll be like "I saw you opened the email." "How'd you know?" "I use Outreach." You can do that. At your last job, what did you guys do?

Brooke Bachesta:

You would just call and be like, straight cold-call. Like, "Hi, we haven't spoken before, I'm calling because of x, y, and z. And then you keep that knowledge on the low though, like you've been stalking their opens. But also-

Ryan O'Hara:

The DL.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, we've done this a lot with our interns, because they're working ... We have four interns this summer, and they don't have named accounts per se, they're just working a lot of really small ones, or things that have previously been de-queued and since there's such a high volume, and we just want them to learn how to use the platform and prioritize their time, they use a lot of automated sequences. So like followup on marketing leads or whatever. And so you can set up triggers to say, "If somebody opens this email more than two times, more than five times, automatically generate a call task or automatically generate a generic task that says put this person in a more customized sequence." Because they obviously care in some way shape or form about whatever it is that you sent them.

Ryan O'Hara:

Hopefully I'm not calling your product out, I wish you guys would automatically do that somehow. I don't know if you can.

Brooke Bachesta:

That would be sweet.

Ryan O'Hara:

That should be the next thing you do. Another example would be like sequences in a lot of ways are almost like railroad tracks, and you're having someone go on a path, but random stuff can happen. Like for example, opens the email, I call, there's no task to call. You could actually auto make a task like you'll go call this person, right?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, and there's also something to be said about, there's so much cool stuff that you can do with the railroad track, building the process, but it makes me so sad when I'm like man, this is making my brand new SDR dumb, because they're like, "It didn't tell me to do it, so I didn't call." They're so attached to the process. So that would be cool to be like, "Hey, alert, this is happening, you might want to go do something. LinkedIn, message, text them, something."

Ryan O'Hara:

All right, when we were coming up as prospectors, we didn't have this stuff, you know what I mean. We basically had a compose window, and you'd have your Polycom phone on your desk and call.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yes.

Ryan O'Hara:

So it's really different now, it's kind of crazy to think about.

Brooke Bachesta:

It's true, I'm horrified to think, I'm so sorry to all my prospects that I just blasted with thousands of emails every single week to hit my email KPI.

Ryan O'Hara:

We didn't know better, you know what I mean. So with that stuff, do you guys have activity goals every day?

Brooke Bachesta:

We do. At least my methodology is prove to me that you can do it this way, because we have a lot of data around it, and then once you're hitting your number, you can come up with your own creative whatever specific Rishi output model. But when you start, we ask our reps to put 15 people in the sequence every day.

Ryan O'Hara:

15 new people, right? New people?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, well, I mean they could have been in the platform already. Just you're adding them to your personal pipeline. And then that could be a combination of automated and custom, we want them to skew really heavily towards custom manual stuff, and then supplement with automated, and then we ask them to make 60 dials every single day.

Ryan O'Hara:

This is all coming together, it's crazy. We've covered a lot of stuff. We've covered what you should make your sequences out of, what the structure for followup, what order of operations you should do some stuff in, what about the other weird stuff like Sendoso, sending videos, LinkedIn voice message, do you guys bake those into sequences, or do you let freewill happen with the SDR to go do that stuff?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, we have all the tools at their disposal. They can go nuts if they want to supplement in and target prospects. Sendoso specifically, we have an initial meeting confirmation sequence like you work so hard to book these meetings, we want to make sure that they show up. So as soon as you book somebody, you'll put them into this four step sequence, and then time it, the first step is an email that just says confirmation of here's the Zoom link, here's my account executive, they're copied on this email, we'll see you tomorrow at noon. That stuff.

Brooke Bachesta:

You time that stuff the day before your meeting. Then it will also remind you to call, and then it will send out something from [inaudible 00:41:43] like a $5 gift card, then the day of it reminds you ... Oh, I guess it's five stuff. It will remind you to [inaudible 00:41:49] and then [inaudible 00:41:51] email that goes, "Hey, I just sent you something yesterday, let me know if you didn't get it."

Brooke Bachesta:

So we use that for that, or Sendoso for those. For [inaudible 00:42:02] it's not a huge part of our outbound strategy, just because it can be really distracting for new reps, because it's a new fun and shiny thing to do, and if you didn't have a huge pipeline of hundreds of prospects moving, it would be very easy for a net new hire to be like, "I'm going to spend all my time making videos, and today I made three awesome videos and I called nobody." Which, no hate to video art, because it is really effective when it works, but I don't want my brand new person spending all their time there.

Ryan O'Hara:

I got a little bit of a hot take on that actually. It's not a hot take or a shot at you. Just a little thing.

Rishi Mathur:

Quickly Ryan, we have four minutes, so this is the last call for questions.

Ryan O'Hara:

Okay, if people are going to ask questions, the peanut gallery are here, you should get it in. I'll add my hot take while we're waiting for that.

Ryan O'Hara:

I actually kind of think that if you're doing video correctly you should be able to do a video faster than you can write a cold email, or I guess you can faster, but you know what I mean? I think in a lot of ways, people overthink video too much. They try to make it like a cold email or they do three takes or something. You just got to record and go for it. You know what I mean? It's like dropping in on a skateboard, you can't half lean back, you got to go all in on it. So one thing that we used to do when I was running the SDR team here, is we actually used to do video call blitzes. And it basically would be make videos-

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh, that's cool.

Ryan O'Hara:

... and one of the rules we is that you couldn't do more than one take. If you screwed up, you had to keep going no matter what. Because it's just like you leave a voicemail ... That's the problem, these new reps they're like, "I stumbled a little."

Brooke Bachesta:

It has to be perfect.

Ryan O'Hara:

And it's not like, no, you don't have to do that. Just get something out there and be human. And the other cool part is if you're working from home right now, there's things around you, I could hold this captain's lamp that I got recently. I'm going to break it probably. Oh my God, it's way heavier than I thought it was. But I could hold this and be like, "Hello, come with me if you want to do sequences."

Rishi Mathur:

That's half your size. It's a gigantic lamp. What?

Ryan O'Hara:

Everyone just saw how pathetically weak I am. I couldn't even lift that thing.

Brooke Bachesta:

It's a really big lamp.

Ryan O'Hara:

But, it's an authentic captain's lamp. But you could just grab stuff around your house and do interesting stuff in videos, and show that you had personality, and do it quick. Don't even think about it, and just go.

Brooke Bachesta:

I like that, yeah. Very true. And you could-

Rishi Mathur:

I used to battle sea monsters with that. I'm sorry. It's just ...

Brooke Bachesta:

You could even record yourself doing that, and then send it to them, and then like a week later, use the same video and then just bump it in a reply FEP and now you get a two-for. One and done.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, yeah, or one of the ones that Jeremy does on our team, Jeremy will see if someone opens his email and doesn't respond, or views his LinkedIn profile, he'll send a video of him dancing to Rockwell's Someone's Watching Me. Dude, he gets crazy reply rates doing it. You can have some fun with this stuff with sequences too. Mess around with some stuff. I think one of the things that sucks is a lot of these companies they'll jump into sequencing and they forget that sales is also about showing that you're extraordinary, and having personality and stuff. So that's a big part of it. Some of the reps at Outreach are awesome people. I met them, I know a bunch of them.

Brooke Bachesta:

I would agree with that.

Ryan O'Hara:

Literally, you guys hired one of my interns.

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh, I know, Isabelle, she's the best. She's a senior now. She's promoted.

Ryan O'Hara:

Whoa, is she on your team?

Brooke Bachesta:

Not anymore, no. But she is our East Coast corporate senior SDR.

Ryan O'Hara:

Whoa, she's going to be walking around with a walker pretty soon.

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah.

Ryan O'Hara:

Bad joke, bad joke. Rishi's cringing. So Brooke, this has been super useful and super helpful. What do you want people to do? If you're listening to this, and you don't use any of this tech, go talk to Brooke, is that what we should do here?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, come find me on LinkedIn, I'm always down to chat, talk shop about what you're doing, or if you just want to chat about Outreach or general SDR life.

Rishi Mathur:

Brooke, your title is your email, so people can just email you from that, right?

Brooke Bachesta:

That's right. Yeah. Or you can email me direct. I'm the only Brooke Bachesta that I know of on LinkedIn. Come find me and we'll have a good chat.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, I'm going to do something that's evil, I'm really sorry everyone, but I'm going to do this. I'm not making this up. If you are a LeadIQ customer, and you are not using our Outreach integration you are insane. I'm insulting you. You're like Rishi-

Rishi Mathur:

What?

Ryan O'Hara:

Don't be like Rishi, Rishi's not using our Outreach integration. You can look at a profile on LinkedIn or Sales Navigator or LinkedIn Search and you can literally capture people and handpick what sequence you want to add them to and it's magical. It comes with fully enriched contact data, and you can just go. If Brooke wants people to add 15 prospects a day, they can do that in one click and not even blink an eye, and then get to selling. That's what we're really trying to do, and make it a lot easier for you. So I highly recommend you check it out, and hang out with that. If you want to learn more, hit back the SDRs that are going to reach out to you.

Ryan O'Hara:

Oh, we have a question. Do we have a question?

Rishi Mathur:

I'm up, I'm up, I'm up. Plans on doing that with SalesLoft. Okay.

Ryan O'Hara:

I don't want to talk about SalesLoft with an Outreach person on.

Brooke Bachesta:

You can, it's fine.

Ryan O'Hara:

We do that with SalesLoft too. You actually can do it with SalesLoft if you want a demo or you want to hit us up after, literally direct message me on LinkedIn, I'll set you up with it.

Ryan O'Hara:

We love everybody, everybody's cool. Not getting in the middle, but-

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh yeah, good times.

Ryan O'Hara:

I will tell you that the people in this space they're really trying to improve sales. So it's great. Brooke, anything else you want to add? You want to say anything to Rishi?

Brooke Bachesta:

Yeah, thank you both, all three of you actually for hosting me. This was super fun. And yeah, seriously, I love chatting with other SDR leaders. So if you ever want to talk about what's going on, or compare notes about dealing with COVID, keeping your team motivated, all that jazz, I would love to talk to you.

Ryan O'Hara:

All right, that means send her jazz videos on LinkedIn, so find some-

Brooke Bachesta:

Oh please do.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, yeah. Thank you very much Brooke. Rishi, thank you for doing the bit. And everyone else, thank you. Please be nice to our SDRs when they reach out to you.

Brooke Bachesta:

Thanks guys, have a good one.

Ryan O'Hara:

All right, bye everyone.

Brooke Bachesta:

Bye.

Rishi Mathur:

Bye.