Skip to main content

Episode 1: Stu Heinecke

B2B Tonight Transcript

Ryan O'Hara:

Let's see. It looks like we're rolling. Rishi, how’s it going, man?

Rishi Mathur:

Hey man, it's going very well. How's everything with you?

Ryan O'Hara:

It's okay. I'm a little nervous. This is our first time doing this. The scary part is we can't see how people are reacting except in chat so when things happen, we're not going to know if we suck or if we bomb or if people want to cringe.

Rishi Mathur:

What's with the negative talk? Ryan, believe in yourself. You're always great. Actually you're not always great, but you're usually okay.

Ryan O'Hara:

I do fine. I want to tell people that are watching that we have a little chat thing down here. If you want to ask questions, once we have our guest on the Q and A parts, the spot to ask questions, if you want to just make comments, we really want to make this interactive and fun for everybody. Don't be afraid to use comments, say hi to people. Let's get some jibber Jabber going. Yes, it's a key tart Alex. Maybe I'll play it later on for you guys. I don't know. The hard part is I can't get sound on the Zoom because I'm using headsets and stuff.

Ryan O'Hara:

There will be a recording afterward for people that are asking. If you have to drop off or because you think it's terrible and you want to get off, we won't get mad. There'll be a recording set. Rishi is also going to help in monitoring some of those conversations and stuff. Thank you for the hair, by the way. I've been putting little highlights-

Rishi Mathur:

He's talking to me, actually. My hair looks great.

Ryan O'Hara:

No, he's not.

Rishi Mathur:

You’re barely up there.

Ryan O'Hara:

Are you kidding? No. Come on. We're going to get started in a second. Rishi, do you want to say hi to the people really quick? This is your chance to tell the masses about yourself.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah. Hi everyone. I'm Rishi Mathur. I am Ryan's better half, probably the better looking and more thoughtful and just generous half.

Ryan O'Hara:

I disagree with that, but that's okay. I want to tell people why we're doing B2B tonight, today, and why we've been thinking about this for a long time. About a year and a half ago, I went to a webinar and it was terrible. I saw someone pitch their product, I saw screen shares, I saw slides and I dropped off and I was like, "Man, I was really looking forward to that." I won't say who the guest was, but it was really disappointing because I loved the guest that was on it.

Ryan O'Hara:

Long story short, I started thinking about what can we do that's a little different for a webinar besides just having screen shares and PowerPoints and stuff. And Rishi and I got in the lab a little bit. We grabbed some test-tubes and stuff, and we decided to make a talk show. That's what B2B tonight's going to be. We're going to be doing these things. We're going to start bi-weekly and then we'll chisel it to doing them weekly as we can get the machine going. But the idea is that every week we have to put something out for you people. You can just join.

Ryan O'Hara:

If you're on our list, you'll get emailed every week about it. It's going to be bi-weekly at the start, but I'm pretty excited and our first guest is pretty sweet. But before we get rolling, Rishi, what's the deal, I heard something earlier today about you not wanting to be the sidekick. You're not the sidekick here, you're also a host, right?

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah, no. I'm the main host from what I was told in my contract.

Ryan O'Hara:

That contract, what are we paying you? Do you remember?

Rishi Mathur:

I can’t disclose that, but it was the high six figures.

Ryan O'Hara:

Okay. All right. You're getting paid in pennies.

Rishi Mathur:

That was pennies?

Ryan O'Hara:

A little bit. We're going to have a lot of cool things that happen throughout the show though. We'll have panelists that come in. We might have some surprise appearances from people and stuff as these things go on and we'll get the production quality better as we go. This is our first one, but I look good in HD. Don’t I? Look at this. You can see I haven't been outside at all during the pandemic and stuff. We really want people to feel good and feel positive about all the stuff that's going on. Hopefully you feel and crave that human connection with people.

Ryan O'Hara:

I'm using a Panasonic G7 for people that are asking what camera it is. It's a very affordable camera. It's five or 600 bucks. We have it hooked up to a machine. I have it on my wired internet connection, so it's a little bit better and that's how I'm working. Rishi is using a native web cam, but he has one coming in the mail. Unfortunately, Rishi is in New Jersey. The pandemic's really bad right there and shipping's really slow. How's your family holding up, Rishi?

Rishi Mathur:

We're strong.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah?

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah. We're strong. Not a single person dropped off. It's like Oregon Trail and we're doing really well.

Ryan O'Hara:

You’re quarantined at your parents' house, I'm expecting your mom to come by with Tang and pop tarts and stuff in the middle of this thing for you, right?

Rishi Mathur:

Yes. Tang. I don't know why we do pop tarts. We're more of a strudel family if you ask me.

Ryan O'Hara:

Strudel? Your high horse. I'm sorry. I didn't realize that. I don't think you could do this... By the way, Nick is our admin that's helping with the stuff if you guys get stuck with any questions. I wish we had made a poll about if people are pro Toaster Strudel or Pop-Tart, if you could do it, that'd be cool, Nick. I don't know if you can, but if you can, I definitely want to see. Let's see chat. Do you like Pop-Tarts-

Rishi Mathur:

By the way somebody says samosa too. Yes. My mom might bring samosa. Also, Sam, I was in city, it got too bad, so I came back to Jersey.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah. He gets to spread illness with his parents. You're a great guy.

Rishi Mathur:

It's the only way I can take over this house.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah. I will always make [inaudible 00:04:54] by the way. I'm definitely on team Toaster strudel, actually. Don't tell my wife. She loves Pop-Tarts. She's-

Rishi Mathur:

Did you hear about the things that are happening on Zoom?

Ryan O'Hara:

I saw a news story actually the other day talking about they're doing classes and stuff on them.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah. It's getting pretty scary. I don't know if you read the articles.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah. I actually heard. This is really terrible. Zoom was kind enough to donate their technology to schools everywhere in the United States so that people can do classes remote and stuff. By the way, if anyone from Zoom is in the meeting, thank you for doing that. It's super nice and super kind of you. I heard that last week and the week before, there've been people that have been exposing a vulnerability by just bombing Zoom meetings and they've been shouting and sharing some racial stuff with students in classes and stuff. It's really terrible.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah. It's getting me really concerned.

Ryan O'Hara:

Well, let me ask you something, Rishi, how have they not caught you doing this yet?

Rishi Mathur:

You don't have to snitch on me, but, Ryan, I'm actually very concerned. Did you know that these bombs just interrupt the entire Zoom process and also on top of that, did you also know that how this pandemic affected all bouncers? There's not a single bouncer. You know what I did? I hired our very first bouncer for our very first episode. He's one of the best bounces in New York city and more importantly, a great friend. Everybody welcome to the show, Alex Payne.

Ryan O'Hara:

You guys can golf club and you could have Alex Payne... That's Jon Mazza.

Rishi Mathur:

That's not Alex Payne at all.

Ryan O'Hara:

That's not Alex Payne. In fact, he looks nothing like Alex. Get out of here, Mazza.

Rishi Mathur:

Mazza, what are you doing here?

Jon Mazza:

I don't know. You guys...

Ryan O'Hara:

What a nice appearance. What's up, Mazza.

Jon Mazza:

Wow. Wow. Thanks guys for having me. I really appreciate it. I actually just came up with... Hey. Wow. I thought the reason you had me on, I actually came up with some amazing tips on how to book a meeting with literally anybody in the world. I thought that's why we wanted to chat here today.

Rishi Mathur:

Sounds good. What are some of those tips?

Jon Mazza:

Well, actually, I wrote some of them down on my board over here, if you could see it. It looks a little bit backwards at this time, but here's the prime time hours for cold calling and it's this board that I'm going with quite a bit. Did you think I was supposed to be Alex or something? Who's this Alex?

Ryan O'Hara:

I guess Alex was going to come on, but we could actually tackle some stuff with you first.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah. All right. I want to know from your standpoint, what is your number one tip, your absolute best secret tip for trying to book a meeting with anybody and also in this whole pandemic of prospecting, please?

Jon Mazza:

Well, this is probably the most important tip I could give anybody at this time and it's really, really taking a strong look at when those primetime hours are for your cold calling. Be on the lookout for all your analytics or getting people on the phone, because that's something that's definitely been helping me get people on the phone, meetings with them. Definitely be empathetic, talking about your day. I tell everybody how I'm working in my laundry room right now, which is pretty cool and how I have my five-year-old child running around screaming while I'm trying to be in this call.

Jon Mazza:

I actually had to lock him in the dog cage just a little while ago to make sure he wasn't jumping in. Yeah, that's got to be a top tip right there.

Ryan O'Hara:

I was going to say, Mazza, what's the best cold call or cold email thing you've ever done?

Jon Mazza:

Best cold call or cold email I've ever done. Jeez. Actually, just the other day I got somebody on the phone who was driving with their kids. They were playing around with their kids and I was like, "Holy crap. I just did this terrible thing. I don't want to keep you away from your family." I send him an email right away saying thanks for not taking my cold call today and now I'm going to spend more time with my family because of it. And I went on for a walk and then he was like, "Okay, I'll take a meeting." I didn't even ask for a meeting and he did. I just-

Ryan O'Hara:

[Crosstalk 00:09:13]. That's awesome.

Jon Mazza:

[Crosstalk 00:09:14] a couple of days ago.

Ryan O'Hara:

I think part of the reason that that happens is because people actually, they want to talk to someone they like, and if you do that, I have an old saying that I always tell people when we do training, I'd be like, one of the things we say is there's two types of people in this world. There's people that drive pickup trucks and there's people that ask their friends to move shit for them because they're in a pickup truck. In fact, Mazza, you really move stuff for us all the time at the office because you drive a pickup truck.

Jon Mazza:

Exactly. I'm the guy with the pickup truck.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah. That-

Rishi Mathur:

[Crosstalk 00:09:43].

Ryan O'Hara:

Go ahead, Rishi. I'm sorry.

Rishi Mathur:

I was just going to say, Mazza, that's fantastic. Mazza, quick question. How did you grow that beard? And has that beer changed your life in this time? Have people been reasoning with you more? It seems like it's a great power move.

Jon Mazza:

I shave every day and I gave myself a haircut yesterday, too. I'm trying to... Only on the side. I want the long... On the back and the top, I want to make sure I have a full mullet with the beard combo going. It's definitely been a goal of mine for some time now and I'm going to through with it this time. My wife won’t be happy, but...

Ryan O'Hara:

We're somehow going to have some surprise, [inaudible 00:10:21] Jon Mazza being one of them. Let's bring back our bouncer friend, Alex Payne. Alex is going to help us with protecting the meeting to make sure things don't get out of hand and I want to make sure that we honor that because, let's be honest here, everyone's being impacted by the economy here. Especially people that bounce in New York. Rishi, you do stand-up on the side. Your stand-up gigs are all canceled. Right?

Rishi Mathur:

Every single one got canceled, except for this one. Thank you.

Ryan O'Hara:

This isn't a stand-up thing.

Rishi Mathur:

You told me I got to do 25 minutes after this.

Ryan O'Hara:

Well, listen, if people want to see your standup, you can do that. They can follow you on Instagram or something.

Rishi Mathur:

That's true. They could and they should.

Ryan O'Hara:

It's quite all right. Anyway, we've been really trying to think about some other ways too, that we can change the medium and stuff. You want the Instagram plug? People want to know your tag.

Rishi Mathur:

By the way, we have a Q and A right now happening.

Ryan O'Hara:

Let's pop into it for a second.

Rishi Mathur:

Yes. Right. Scott, @wheelhouseDMG has asked, have you guys played with personalized video, VDR, on Jarrah, etc.? Tips?

Ryan O'Hara:

Wow. Have I? Mazza has too. Do you want to go first, Mazza, with how you've done video?

Jon Mazza:

How I've done video?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah.

Jon Mazza:

Yeah. I use video a lot of different ways. Usually you want to make them super quick videos. I even make it like quick instructional videos of how to use our products and I try to do it in special locations with my little screen. I did one out in the rain the other day in the freezing cold and wanted to make sure that the prospect that I was reaching out to knew that. Definitely getting soaking wet and stuff like that, but make them try to be entertaining and quick, get to your point very quickly and definitely entertaining as possible. You don't have to be funny to be entertaining too, but try to do something that is going to get their attention.

Ryan O'Hara:

One thing that I've actually noticed is when I'm doing stuff with video, a couple of little tricks, I'll give you guys if you're using stuff like VDR or Bombora or any of those apps that people use. Sorry, BombBomb, not Bombora is buyer and tenement in a different space. One thing that's really weird is when you're actually talking to someone, eye contact's big thing.

Ryan O'Hara:

It's a little psychological thing they used to do in door to door selling, a lot of these evil weird telemarketing companies and stuff do this too, when you're actually selling to someone and you're asking questions and you're talking to video, when you ask for the meeting, one of the things they tell you is to break eye contact and it'll make you feel comfortable. That's a really great tip that you can do. Another thing you can do also, you can actually go through and work with different people. I think I just saw Alex come on for a second [inaudible 00:13:10].

Rishi Mathur:

Alex did come on for a second. Alex works behind the scenes. He's a ninja. He's just in the shadows. We don't know where he is and he's doing his job. I have full faith in him.

Ryan O'Hara:

We see any trolls, we're ready. They're coming, they're coming. Alex's monitoring the situation and stuff. I was going to say, break eye contact when you ask questions. If I'm like, "Hey, can we get a couple of minutes to talk?" Look away when you're asking for the meeting. It's something that puts people at ease after you making eye contact with them on a webcam as you're recording. The other thing I recommend is if you're going to record a video, have light in your background. Sorry, have light in your foreground.

Ryan O'Hara:

If my laptop's like this, I want to twist and if I'm near a window, have the window light behind your camera, not in front of it. It'll make you pop more on screen, so you don't look like a bond villain, even though I know that's a look that Rishi's been trying to go for. One other-

Jon Mazza:

I've seen a Ryan O'Hara rant coming pretty soon, so I got to take that and say, see you later to you guys. I got a meeting to go to. I love you. Have fun. This is great.

Rishi Mathur:

Thank you so much, Jon Mazza. Everybody, Jon Mazza, one more time.

Ryan O'Hara:

Thanks for coming on, Mazza. We really appreciate.

Rishi Mathur:

Alex.

Ryan O'Hara:

We're-

Rishi Mathur:

Alex, are you back there?

Alex Payne:

Yeah, I'm here. That's two strikes against you.

Rishi Mathur:

Were you working the door or what? What's going on?

Alex Payne:

I don't know who's running your place or working your door, but I got kicked out twice. That's two strikes. And first of all, I'm not a bouncer. I'm a cooler.

Rishi Mathur:

Whoa, what do you mean?

Alex Payne:

When a situation is hot, I cool it down. Zoom, attendees of 18 plus, or whoever's in here, don't worry. This is a safe zone. Now, I'm going to need everyone to pull out your IDs. No one gets on unless they're on the list. It's so hard to get on. I couldn't get on.

Rishi Mathur:

That's a very good point, but Alex, let's just get the people to understand who you are. What bars in New York did you use to bounce?

Alex Payne:

I never made it to bouncing bars. That's the major leaks, but I have bounced at some of the most well foot trafficked areas in New York city.

Rishi Mathur:

Like what areas?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah. What places?

Alex Payne:

The Gap, Cracker Barrel. So many crackers, but the wildest crowds were always at Build-A-Bear. People were always putting weird things in those bears. One guy tried to stuff his kid in the bear, in the bear, not on my watch.

Rishi Mathur:

Well, I feel safe. How about you, Ryan?

Ryan O'Hara:

I feel really safe and really comforted. The good news is we don't have to worry about anyone coming in and doing anything on this end [inaudible 00:15:45].

Rishi Mathur:

Ryan. Hello. Ryan. Is Ryan cut off? Did he get muted?

Alex Payne:

Yes, he did.

Rishi Mathur:

Did you mute him?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah. Why did you mute me?

Alex Payne:

I assessed the situation and I felt an irrelevant rant was coming along. I could see it in the white of his eyes. He left me no choice.

Rishi Mathur:

That's a very good point. Ryan, please, we don't want to have to do that again to you.

Ryan O'Hara:

We went through people. Alex has a list of all the people in this that are allowed to be here. One person, we have on the list that we're really excited to introduce today is our guest of honor. For people that haven't heard about him, his name's Stu Heinecke. He's written the books like How to Get a Meeting with Anyone. He wrote this book, Get The Meeting, which I'm not going to lie. I'm pumped, because I'm in it. I'm a selfish jerk, but it's cool.

Rishi Mathur:

Ryan, hold that book to more center please.

Ryan O'Hara:

Get The Meeting, check it out. I'm worried it's going to make me look bad on camera because its cover is so pretty and colorful. Everyone say hi to Stu Heinecke.

Rishi Mathur:

Hey Stu Heinecke, how's it going?

Ryan O'Hara:

We got to unmute Stu, by the way. He's just a very quiet, reserved guy, I guess.

Stu Heinecke:

Testing. One, two, three. Am I there?

Rishi Mathur:

Stu, you are on, live.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, unmuted.

Stu Heinecke:

All right.

Ryan O'Hara:

You have a voice of an angel, Stu.

Stu Heinecke:

[Crosstalk 00:16:58].

Ryan O'Hara:

For people that aren't familiar with Stu at all, the book is really great by the way. I'm a huge fan. I first met Stu many years ago at a conference. I think it was the leadership summit in Chicago, where we first saw each other and you were doing a panel or a talk there. Stu, what's your story. People might not know about you.

Stu Heinecke:

I've got a crazy background, I'm one of The Wall Street Journal cartoonists and I'm a Hall of Fame nominated marketer twice and I write books and I hope that I get to swoop in and my whole aim there is just to swoop in with some out of left field perspectives and insights and have people go, "Wow. Oh my God, I didn't know you could do that." And yeah, we met, I think it was the leadership summit. I'm watching you and going, "This guy's great." I was watching you.

Ryan O'Hara:

Thank you.

Stu Heinecke:

There's a reason why you're in one of my books. Right? Anyway, but-

Ryan O'Hara:

I'm blushing.

Stu Heinecke:

Hey, the thing is that really early on in my career, the first thing he used to do is I used to create direct mail campaigns for publishers. I was using cartoons in them and at first, nobody thought it was going to work really, really well. The thing is, the way that I reached out to everyone, the way that I got all of the publishers as clients. I’m talking about Time Inc., and Condé Nast and The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, etc. I used to send the cartoons out to them. The first time I did it, I got a hundred percent response rate. That's pretty amazing.

Rishi Mathur:

That is amazing.

Ryan O'Hara:

How were you sending them? What'd you do? You just mailed them to them and said, "Hey, check out this cartoon."?

Stu Heinecke:

No. No, no. I had my first two assignments first in publishing. I created these direct mail campaigns for Rolling Stone and Bon Appétite and both of them beat the controls, meaning they set new records for response right out of the box. That's crazy. I thought, okay, great. The thing I need to do next is I need to send or I need to reach out at least to all of the other publishers, because if I just beat the controls first two times out, then we got to put this to the test everywhere else.

Stu Heinecke:

I send an eight by 10 print of a cartoon, each cartoons personalized, so it's about each recipient. That went out with a note saying, "Hey, this is the device I just used to beat the controls. We need to put this to the test for your titles." And a hundred percent of them responded. I got through to all of them. In fact, I met all of them. That's a hundred percent, I don't know, meeting rate as well. Then they all became clients. All of them became clients. All of that from this one little campaign that cost me about a hundred bucks.

Rishi Mathur:

Stu, I had a question, did this campaign also help you make friends? Can I send a personalized cartoon and hopefully get a buddy that's not Ryan O'Hara?

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah, I would think so. Yes. It's worked... You won’t believe who it's worked on. Yeah.

Ryan O'Hara:

Stu, don't help him do that. If I was only Fred, this has only has, I can’t keep him attached to me.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah, and also the contract, there's still a contract issue. Isn’t there?

Rishi Mathur:

There is. Stu, you sent me some of your cartoons-

Ryan O'Hara:

The money's coming, Rishi.

Rishi Mathur:

Stu, you send me some of your cartoons. Do you mind if we share this and talk about?

Stu Heinecke:

No. Yeah, go ahead.

Ryan O'Hara:

While he's doing the screen-share. Stu, how'd, you get into cartoon? You were just drawing and stuff and you realized you had a knack for it or what?

Stu Heinecke:

Well, the first thing that happened was when I was about eight or 10 or something, my brothers and I used to sneak Playboys at my father's restaurant doors when we were checking out the whole thing. We were checking out the cartoons and we were just saying, "Wow, who are these guys?" How do they do this?" That was my first pull into cartooning. And then, I don’t know, I've just been doing it. I've never been trained in it. But then, eventually, Gahan Wilson and Eldon Dedini are two of those cartoonists from Playboy.

Stu Heinecke:

Then others from the New Yorker, they became part of my group when I started my business, they became part of my group. And by the way, since you're showing that cartoon were we supposed to wear pants today.

Ryan O'Hara:

No.

Stu Heinecke:

I'm just checking.

Rishi Mathur:

No. Most of our viewers have kilts and just the regular old nightgowns.

Stu Heinecke:

Nice.

Ryan O'Hara:

This is good. On this one, obviously the joke is the person's remote. They're acting like they're at work and they have no pants on and that's great. Do you want to do the next one, Rishi?

Rishi Mathur:

Sure.

Ryan O'Hara:

I haven't seen all these yet.

Stu Heinecke:

Is the experience of getting older [inaudible 00:21:42] it starts showing up.

Rishi Mathur:

Stu, can I ask you a question?

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah.

Rishi Mathur:

Where does inspiration for these cartoons come up? How'd you come up with this idea and then where did this come from?

Stu Heinecke:

They just come up. I think it's probably, Ryan a lot like the way you come up with your ideas for your videos, but they just pop into your head mostly at night, actually. I've lost a lot of them. If it wakes you up or if you're lying there half asleep and you come up with just the funniest stuff and then it's a challenge to remember it in the morning, but that's when they come up a lot.

Rishi Mathur:

Absolutely.

Ryan O'Hara:

One thing, Rishi, before we move onto the next one, I wanted to ask, actually, we have a question from the audience really quick. Someone asked, do you have any wisdom for booking meetings with high-powered in-house Fortune 1000 employees and compliance professionals? Their job is risk mitigation, not risk taking, which seems to orient them against any kind of outreach from people outside the organization. Feel free to ignore the question if it's not relevant, but I think it is relevant actually. It's a perfect question.

Stu Heinecke:

I was thinking actually, maybe we should ignore it, but okay. No. Here's the thing. We are in a time, regardless of what the industry is, maybe the medical field, they're pretty busy, but otherwise there are so many people working from home right now and they’re bored. Netflix, I can't even get on Netflix right now because it's being overused. People are bored, but they're also busy and business is still running and people are still getting deals and lots of meetings.

Stu Heinecke:

Of course the meetings are different, they're on Zoom mostly, but the thing is, I think we have in a golden opportunity right now to connect with people while they're at home, and if you connect with them, let's say you reach out via email first, or maybe LinkedIn would be a good way to do it too, but what if you reach out to them and just say, I'd like to send something I think that'll crack you up or whatever it is, it's going to... I don't know what the effect is, but I'm going to send you something or I would like to, would it be okay?

Stu Heinecke:

First of all, because some people may not want to get anything at home right now, but then, okay, then what's the address? I'm finding that people are giving me their personal address all the time, and I'm sending my books out all the time right now, and I personally am making a lot of new connections. A lot of incredible... This is like a supercharging of my business right now. It's crazy. It's all because you can reach out right now and connect with people who are going to have conversations that they wouldn't normally have. I think that's the time we're in.

Ryan O'Hara:

Last month I did a webinar thing with John Barrows and Derek Grant, and one of the things that John was saying is that you have to do stuff that's personalized now, especially right now. We have people that everyone knows someone that's going through this. My mother-in-law just got diagnosed with COVID-19. People know people that have passed away. Rishi's in New Jersey, he's dealing with some stuff, people he knows all the time, friends from stand-up, friends from after work, it's impacting everyone.

Ryan O'Hara:

How inhuman can you be if you just send a template and thing to someone or just a bunch of texts and the walls, if you're going to reach out to lawyers and you want to figure out a way to hit them, even though they're risk adverse, you don't have to be risky, but you need to talk about them. There's a lot of cool things with lawyers, because a lot of the stuff they do is public on the internet. Read about it, read about a cool case that I might've worked on.

Ryan O'Hara:

Do an article search and see if there's any cases or something or a settlement or something that happened that they might've been involved with, that they posted or publicly talked about. A lot of the time those articles and stuff will actually have a lawyer that's quoted there and it's corporate lawyers and stuff that are more hidden or guarded. The thing is, I have a really weird way of wording this, but everybody poops, everybody goes home. They have problems at home. They deal with issues. They ought to go to the bathroom.

Ryan O'Hara:

We're all human beings at the end of the day. You're not your organization. You're not your job. You're a person inside of these things and it's part of your identity.

Stu Heinecke:

[Crosstalk 00:25:47].

Ryan O'Hara:

And if you want to reach those people, that's what you're going to do.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. I agree with you a hundred percent. People are people and this is all about making human to human connections and we were talking about attorneys here for a moment. One of the things one of my clients is doing, we're working with them, is that we're sending out big boards. I can show you what they look like here in a second, but it's a big cartoon and it's one of the New Yorker cartoonist, and it has a couple of lawyers talking. Do you remember Perry Mason?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah.

Stu Heinecke:

Most lawyers I think will know who Perry Mason is. It's a cartoon that has these two lawyers talking, and one of them was saying, it was a brilliant legal strategy. I think they're probably either from Ryan O'Hara or Perry Mason. That thing's going up and I know they’re going to love it. They're going to keep it in their office for the rest of their careers. It's going to be incredible. Ryan, you're absolutely right. This isn't about making pitches right now, it's about making connections, but-

Ryan O'Hara:

[Crosstalk 00:26:49]. I'm going to ask you-

Stu Heinecke:

Ryan, even at that though, people are doing deals. They’ve been having deals all throughout this period right now.

Ryan O'Hara:

I’m craving it too. I'm craving a human connection with people. I don't know if other people are feeling the same way, but I'm almost every Friday I get out of work and I'm having a panic fit of not socializing with people and it's driving me insane.

Rishi Mathur:

Absolutely.

Ryan O'Hara:

Rishi, you had a question, right? You wanted to ask?

Rishi Mathur:

I had one question. Ryan, you mentioned that everyone poops, correct?

Ryan O'Hara:

I did.

Rishi Mathur:

Does everyone use a bidet, because if you're not, I highly recommend it. This is a good opportunity to talk about that and I will make this a platform to do so.

Ryan O'Hara:

Okay.

Stu Heinecke:

That's why we're here to talk about bidets.

Ryan O'Hara:

I love that. I'm trying to reach executives, VPs of sales and we're talking about that. No, I'm just saying like we're all vulnerable. I actually think one of the best ways right now to book more meetings is share your vulnerability with people and if you can do it over a video, if you're good at a cartoon, one of the things I love about you Stu, in your first book, you talked a lot about contact marketing and what you do is you almost treat prospecting like you're reaching out to one person in your marketing campaigns for one person.

Ryan O'Hara:

And I love that. Favorite story that I remember you told me was one with Dan Walsh Smith, who I actually met in South Carolina. Tell the story, Stu, it's crazy.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. Well, here's the thing, I use cartoons to break through to people and you use video a lot and I don't know what else you use, but I wrote about you in the book because you use video.

Ryan O'Hara:

Thanks.

Stu Heinecke:

People are using all kinds of really audacious things to break through and Dan is a great example. He uses what I did call a visual metaphor in the book. Dan writes edgy conversations. It's one of the top ranked sales blogs and the guy, you met him. I haven't even met him in person actually, but the guy runs a hundred mile races and he wins these things. Ultra-competitive athlete, that's part of his brand as well and the thing is that he's a turnaround specialist. That's what he actually does for a living.

Stu Heinecke:

He has this great process for reaching the CEOs of companies that need his services and where do you get a... You can't get a list like that. That doesn't happen. The way that he does is, he's looking for trigger events, he reads the business news every morning, looking for stories on MR Earnings estimates and long or short story long, or anything, or long story short is that he sent them a sword. He has a sword made up and it cost him a thousand bucks every time he does this and he puts a handwritten note in this beautiful wooden box with a sword and the note says, for example, if he's sending it to you.

Stu Heinecke:

"Dear Ryan, business is war, I noticed you lost the battle recently. I just want to let you know, if you ever need a few extra hands in battle, we've got your back." That's outrageous, and guess what kind of response rate he gets there?

Ryan O'Hara:

I love this. Go ahead.

Stu Heinecke:

Well, because-

Ryan O'Hara:

I know because I've read it, but Rishi-

Rishi Mathur:

[Crosstalk 00:29:50].

Stu Heinecke:

He gets a hundred percent response rate to that campaign.

Rishi Mathur:

A hundred percent?

Stu Heinecke:

A hundred percent. And he spends a thousand bucks. Here's what's interesting about content marketing. You're right, Ryan. We're only going to the handful of people that we know are going to change the scale of everything. When you think about someone spending a thousand dollars every time he reaches out to one person, it's a big risk. On the other hand, they're well-qualified they just announced MR Earnings estimates, they need those kinds of services. When he sells a consulting engagement, it's a million dollars an app. It's incredible.

Ryan O'Hara:

Let's break that down for sales reps that are listening and VPs of sales that are trying to build cadences and sequences for this. Here's how I would handle this. If I'm you, the reason you're doing this is because when you actually go and do these cool tactics, it becomes a subject of your follow-up, your cold calls. Did you get my package in the mail? I sent you something really cool. Email, I sent you a sword. Did you see the sword? Have you had a chance to sword fight with anyone in the office yet?

Ryan O'Hara:

There's all kinds of cool things you can do to humanize our outreach. In a pandemic world, you just have to do it with personal email or personal addresses for people. You send stuff to them. I got something in the middle of the other day. Someone sent me a pair of socks with their company on it. And guess what? I'm wearing them. Not right now. I wore them yesterday. I don't want to pawn... I should have worn them today because I knew I was going to forget that story, but that's what I'm getting at.

Ryan O'Hara:

You can actually do some stuff, and look these things up and find it out about someone trying to match up the city with the person. You can even message them that I want to send you a gift. Is there any way I can get an address that I can send to you? What's a good address right now? Now, to circle back to this, Dan actually, I think, I remember you mentioned too, the swords that Dan made were actually made by the guys that made Gladiator. Right? They did all the props of Gladiator or something.

Stu Heinecke:

Exactly. Yeah. They're cool swords. They're pretty cool. I have it in my studio here somewhere, but it's too big. It's huge. Big things-

Ryan O'Hara:

[Crosstalk 00:31:51]. It's disruptive. It stays on your desk and you're going to think of it every time you see it. You're going to think of Dan and you're not going to want to do something with it.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah, and think about it. A sword, I guess you could call it a gift too, but nobody's sitting around waiting, I wish someone would send me a sword. But the thing is, it's a physical representation of the value that he intends to bring to you and by the way, it also represents or it's a sort of... Yeah. Represents his personal brand. Again, that knife's edge because of edgy conversation and ultra-competitiveness. A sword just embodies who he is as a consultant and as a person.

Ryan O'Hara:

Tim actually asked a great question. He said, it's no secret that we're in a crisis. Do you acknowledge it in your messages, or do you focus on value prop? Just seems like every sales email I get is some sad, depressing theme one-liner. I want to talk about this. I'll attest, it is driving me nuts. I am getting a ton of emails from people and you know what they're saying in the email? They're saying, "Hope your family is safe." Or, "Hope you're well." And I get that, but you're implying that anyone that's running email that doesn't say that is saying that they don't hope my family's well.

Ryan O'Hara:

It's a given. What I would do instead is I would actually open up with how I'm feeling and how I'm dealing with stuff. For example, I did a promo video on LinkedIn for this event. And when I put the promo video up online, I literally talked about how I'm dealing with the quarantine and I made a couple of jokes about it. I chose to use a different angle to make light of a bad situation, but if I were prospecting someone, I'd probably open up with a little joke about how I'm dealing with it or something. We don't have to be downers with everything.

Ryan O'Hara:

It's a downtime. The economy's wrecked right now. A lot of people are losing jobs and stuff, but a lot of businesses are still going on. Luckily a lot of people in B2B and SaaS and tech are able to continue doing their job because we're not impacting or touching that industry. One thing you could do is finding things that you have at home to put into your prospecting. I'll give you example, I have two corgis at home. I've got Ruby and I've got Finnegan and they're really cute dogs. You might see them running around in the background when we're talking here on the show.

Ryan O'Hara:

If I see Ruby's doing something cute, I might record it and I just say the prospect's name. Like, hey Ruby, can you say hi to Dan? And Ruby will just be sitting there all bored and stuff. It's a really easy thing for me to pop into a VDR and send you a prospect or Soapbox or whatever application that you're using for these things. You don't have to actually do something super high production. Getting a sword is hard. You're listening to this right now. You're probably like, "I can't go find someone like that." I'll give you another example too, and this is what I think you put in the book.

Rishi Mathur:

By the way, Ryan, I have a sword guy. I'm sorry to cut you off, but people need a sword guy. I got one.

Ryan O'Hara:

Do you have a sword guy?

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah. I got a sword guy. Don't worry about that.

Ryan O'Hara:

Okay. I don't even want to know why you have a sword guy. Rishi just goes to Renaissance fairs, that's the truth. We're finding out secrets about him. One time, for example, I did this thing where around Christmas time, I hired a string quartet and you actually, I think wrote about I, Stu, in the book. We had crazy response rates from this. All we did was grab a webcam, we set it up and I did an intro saying something to the prospect and I had the string quartet play, either holiday songs or classic rock songs.

Ryan O'Hara:

One of the things I did was I knew that we wanted to do it after the holidays, so I recorded some with some classic rock covers that they did. They did Tommy and Elton John and a lot of other songs. Then I just would serenade the prospect and say, "Hey, we really want to work with you guys. I think we can help you because of X, Y, Z. When we present the string quartet to you and be back after, let's get a meeting." And the response rates were insane. And the cool part is if they didn't respond, all my follow-up could be focused on that.

Ryan O'Hara:

I could actually say like, "Hey, I sent you a video. It's pretty cool. I did something really neat. I don't want to spoil it. You should check it out." How many people that you actually get on a phone with and say that are going to be like, "I'm going to just delete the email." They're not going to do that. They're going to run and go check and see what's in the email, because they're like, "All right, this guy's really hyping it up. I guess I'll go take a look." You can do the same thing with LinkedIn connection requests. "Hey Ryan, I sent you an email with a video on it.

Ryan O'Hara:

You really should check it out. It's pretty cool. I think it'll make you excited." Instead, you know what's happening right now, I'm getting pitched on LinkedIn connection requests. Or I add someone and the second they add me, they pitch me and I'm like, "No, dude, don't do that."

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. I block those people. I was going to say, I was on a webinar last week with a group out of London Reachdesk. And someone was talking about how they were sending out beers to people at their home. Somebody would just send a beer out and then they arrange a time so that they can have a beer together. It's just about being human.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah.

Rishi Mathur:

That's awesome

Stu Heinecke:

All of those things.

Rishi Mathur:

Somebody asked a question to you and I want to go with this. It's from Matthew Claus. He goes, "Hi, Stu, when it comes to cartoons, if you wanted to outsource the artwork, do you have any top notch workers you recommend? Apologies is already covered. Joined late anyways, walking my antsy dog."

Stu Heinecke:

Wait, is he actually asking me to recommend someone to work with him with cartoons?

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah, if you have any great recommendations or?

Stu Heinecke:

I'll do it. It's what we do.

Ryan O'Hara:

Stu, just hold [inaudible 00:36:50]. Please.

Rishi Mathur:

[inaudible 00:36:54] tin can and he's shaking.

Ryan O'Hara:

I don't know why I like doing that accent, because it's not any race or country. It's just a generic, whatever accent, no one knows where it's from.

Rishi Mathur:

Do it again.

Ryan O'Hara:

Please Papa. I need it. I guess-

Rishi Mathur:

That's Italian. What are you talking about?

Ryan O'Hara:

It's not Italian. Get out of here.

Rishi Mathur:

No, because obviously that just came to your head. No one's ever said sounded like that.

Ryan O'Hara:

You can also do the Oliver Twist, but I think that one of the things that people don't do is they don't put themselves enough into their prospecting. What I'd recommend if you're a sales manager, do a talent audit. Grab your people, hop on a Zoom right now and say, "Hey, what do you guys have for talent that you do?" Our team, for example, we've got Rishi does stand-up comedy. We've got Jeremy Levine who has a crazy classic MBA collection from almost every city.

Ryan O'Hara:

So any city prospects in you he could literally wear a Jersey of the team that he likes and put that in the video that he's talking about and talk about that player and use that to get relatable with the prospect. We've got Jon Mazza who does an amazing... He's amazing at karaoke and I'm not nice with this

Rishi Mathur:

Phenomenal.

Ryan O'Hara:

He can do crazy impressions of singers when he does karaoke. I once saw him do Tracy Chapman's Fast Car, and he sounded just like him. It was crazy. Peter, literally in our comments he's saying his jersey collection is on point. You don't understand how annoying it is to not have a coat room in our office because all his jerseys are in there. That's a thing. You all have cool things in your life that you can relate. Tyler in our team is into fishing. He's got some crazy pictures of fish that he's caught that are huge and he'll send them to prospects and they respond and they're into it.

Ryan O'Hara:

Patrick on our teams into rapping. He can freestyle rap, flow really well about something. There's all kinds of qualities. Actually, Stu, you had a bunch of people in your book, including myself. You had Alex Perkins, Kate Turchin they basically have written songs for prospects because they're into making music.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. Do you know Kenny Madden? Have you ever met him?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah.

Stu Heinecke:

Kenny, here's a guy, he's trained as a painter, he comes up with all kinds of really cool stuff, actually. His artwork is amazing, but he paints and he was telling me about this one time he wanted to reach three, I think there were startup entrepreneurs. They were all in the flat iron building. That really skinny building, iconic building in New York. He did three paintings of the flat iron building, send them over, what's going to happen, right? He's going to get through. They love them, they're out in their lobbies.

Stu Heinecke:

Some of his cohorts were saying, "Well, how do we do this, because we don't paint?" I hear this all the time too. Well, I'm not a cartoonist, I can't do this. You probably hear it as well, Ryan. I can't make videos, whatever.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah.

Stu Heinecke:

One of the women who said that, "Well, what do you like to do? What's the thing that you can't not do." That's Kenny's favorite saying. And she said, "Well, I like to knit." She meant something and got through. Send a piece of yourself." This is all about making human to human connections and being human, and I think being outrageous. Having fun with it. This is almost like... I call it contact marketing, but it's really just playing a prank. Isn't it? It's really what it is.

Ryan O'Hara:

It's an elaborate scheme to impress prospects. The thing is you provide people with this entertainment, you do something that's different. Do you know what else it does? I actually, I was talking about this with Rishi, there's a book that's out there called Contagious by Jonah Berger. Have you read that, Stu?

Stu Heinecke:

No, I don't know that one, but I'll put it on my list.

Ryan O'Hara:

He's great. It's a great book. He basically, him and a bunch of students at the Wharton school analyzed what made things go viral and he looked at all these different... Studied thousands of things that have blown up to new stories and stuff. And one of the things that he talks about is having a cool story to tell. That's one of the things that makes something go viral. One of the unbelievable things that he did, he realized that a lot of stuff that goes viral, isn't shared online. It's shared offline. Like, think about it from this perspective.

Ryan O'Hara:

I'm at my desk, right now we're remote, so I guess it's still online, but I'm not putting it on Facebook or Twitter or something. I'm at my desk and I get a sword in the mail. What am I going to do? Probably going to take a picture of it and text my friends and be like, "Hey, look, someone sent me a sword. What the hell is going on?" Another example of this that worked for us a couple of years ago when I was prospecting.

Ryan O'Hara:

I remember I went on Amazon, I just bought a bunch of people Point Break on DVD with a Swayze, the Keanu Reeves version, not the remake, because let's be honest here, why the hell did they remake a masterpiece? I don't understand it. All I did was I sent these DVDs to prospects with no context, no note. Then a couple of weeks later, I wrote an email to them. That was like, "Hey, I sent you the greatest movie of all time in the mail. Did you get my package?" And when they didn't answer, I called asked that and the thing is they'd laugh and say hi, you really think point break.

Ryan O'Hara:

The joke they think is that point break is the greatest food in the world. They don't know that I'm not joking, but if they do think I'm joking, then it's okay, because even arts don’t realize that it's over the top and appreciation and passion is my love's point break. You can do things to almost entertain someone and you know what they did, some of these people were taking pictures of it and putting it online because it was a cool story. A prospect sent me Point Break on DVD and then put it all online. A prospect sent me a string quartet and then took a picture and put it online.

Ryan O'Hara:

A prospect sent me a song on an acoustic guitar. If you have none of these talents, you've probably have something, not everyone grows up and says, I want to work in sales. There's probably other things that you want to do.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah, and I wanted to say also that, really key point when you talked about sending something that's so outrageous, so astonishing that people share it, that it goes viral. That's how you get... I wrote about it in, let’s see if I get it right in that book and get the beating that you could actually get response rates to your campaigns that are above a hundred percent. How crazy is that? This is the only form of marketing anyway, that gets response rates approaching a hundred percent. Do you remember the story, in the book of the rubber card?

Ryan O'Hara:

I don't actually, I feel bad, for good.

Stu Heinecke:

That's all right, because this was... This one guy had, it's about pocket campaigns in the book, but this one guy had his card made up and it's made on this piece, it's a piece of rubber, the size of a business card, but they put it on a jig and stretched it out. I should put it on the camera. They stretched it out and then they printed on it and then waited for the ink to dry and cure and then when that happened, then they took it off. That was his card. The thing is when they took it off, the jig that everything's squeezed down, you couldn't read it unless you do this with the card.

Stu Heinecke:

He said, every time he handed it out, people would say... Well, first of all, it said, "What do you do? What do you do? Well, here's my card. What's up? Here’s this little fluffy thing. Here you go. What is this?" And people just naturally, they pull it like that to read it. And it reveals it's Paul Nielsen's card. He's a fitness trainer and guess what? He already has you exercising.

Rishi Mathur:

That's awesome.

Stu Heinecke:

Right?

Rishi Mathur:

That's so cool.

Stu Heinecke:

People would take that and they’d bring it into the office and they'd show her, look at this card I got from this guy. They'd scratch it. Look at that. It already has you exercising. It was an initial metaphor for what... It's like, this is what it's like to work out with Paul. Every time he handed one out, he said, he'd get three or four new clients. Here's one of my business cards. I got pretty cool business cards. I've never had that happen. I've never handed out my cards and got any clients actually, because of the card, but that pass along is critical. Isn't that amazing?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah. It's really cool. We actually have a question I want to answer that we can answer together Stu. Someone asked, Tony, asked, totally see how this works for one-to-one connections to potential gatekeepers, but could you talk about how this might appeal to one to many? I have some thoughts on this, but do you want to answer first or do you want me to?

Stu Heinecke:

One thing, the personalized stuff can work in one to many of them. That's what I was doing in direct mail. We had cartoons on the outer envelope and the cartoon was about the recipient and we would sell... Not sell, but with their paid order or whatever they did, whatever the required action was. We'd send them a print of a cartoon. You could do one to many. I call that wide personalization, and wide personalization works great in contact marketing as well and that's what we use in our big board. I better show you our big board soon, but anyway, in our big board campaigns.

Stu Heinecke:

The thing about contact marketing is that this really is the opposite of going one to many. This is about going to that handful of people who can change everything. It can be the dream client or a dream strategic partner or a mentor, or getting a job. All these things require getting meetings. It gets most interesting when you're doing one-to-one. What do you think, Ryan?

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah. I have two thoughts for it. I agree with you on, especially right now, almost every sales person that I've talked to, sales trader has told me that this is the time to do one to one. Don't do one to many right now, because it's going to be [inaudible 00:46:07]. I understand you might be working at a company that has activity goals you have to hit every day. Let's start with that problem and then we'll go wider. Rishi, your job is to make sure I get back to my main point.

Rishi Mathur:

Okay.

Ryan O'Hara:

When you're doing one-to-one or when you're doing one of the many, if you want to try and get more of this done, the first suggestion I have is build an assembly line of a campaign that you're going to do. When I sent prospects songs back four years ago and had 40% of them book into meetings for me, when I actually did that campaign with my webcam and I recorded it, I didn't just record one, send it, and then be like, "That was cool." I actually planned out doing it for my entire list for that day.

Ryan O'Hara:

I spent a Monday figuring out what accounts I wanted to break into. Then later on that Monday, I wrote all the lyrics for the songs that I was going to do. Then I made a template and songs that I reuse for every single prospect and I sang the lyrics with the song. And before long, I sent 12 songs out in one day, and it didn't take that long and I had whatever. What's 40% of the 12th? I think it ended up being five meetings, actually. We ended up booking from just doing that one campaign and it took a whole day of work.

Ryan O'Hara:

I'm not going to lie. I'll take that. I'd rather have five meetings in one day, than call a hundred people and get ignored and only hear back from 1%. This is what's crazy. There's data out there. Reply rates and cold email connect rates are at the lowest they've ever been and I'm not talking about pandemic. I'm talking before that. With people using sales enablement tools and sales engagement tools, those tools were made to make it easier for you to sell, not easier for you to blast out templates and the worst. We're training prospects, not to leave your inbox.

Ryan O'Hara:

We're training prospects, not look at your LinkedIn. That's just not to look at your LinkedIn videos or your LinkedIn connection requests and not to answer the phone. When you call how many people hit the side button, when they get an unknown number that they're working? The reason that that happens, which is a systemic problem of us, not putting enough thought into the outreach that we're doing and making really good first impressions. That's part of my point of this rant and the reason that we're doing this meeting.

Ryan O'Hara:

I'm talking to large organizations now that are shifting back the other way, because they had less than a 1% response rate over cold email and their connect rates on the phone are less than 3%. We have to reverse it right now. Anyone that's listening to this. You are part of the movement. We're all making a difference to do this. Stu, is literally one of the founding fathers of this going through and getting tons of examples and collecting it over the internet of these different people and these folk heroes that are doing really cool and unique things to break out and be different.

Ryan O'Hara:

That's where I'm going with this. You can go and do these things, if you have a boss and you want to figure out what to do something that's a little bit more customized. What I'd recommend to get into a habit of it is what I call the 10-minute game. It's a really easy game that you can do. Some of you have probably heard it before, come up with something cool that you want to do for a prospect set up 10 minutes to research a prospect, find out what you want to say in the email, bring up that research in the prospect of your cold call that you're doing and send it.

Ryan O'Hara:

What you do is that you do that for 10 minutes and you do that six times every hour and before long you've reached out to 30 people with highly customized content. Here's the cool part. The more you do this, that 10-minute game turns into a five-minute game. Then when you want to start doing cool unique stuff, like content marketing, it's going to be a lot easier for you to do contact marketing, where you're doing one-to-one stuff with these accounts that you've put a lot of effort and do because you already researched them.

Ryan O'Hara:

Write down the things you research and use that to come with an idea. I'll give you another example. One idea that we did that scaled very well. We went through a campaign where we found music that people liked. We basically would go find them on Facebook, stalk them, really quick research phase. We take an hour, research 30 prospects, really quick find bands that they liked in the about page. Then we just wrote down bands they liked and we went and found vinyls of the bands they liked and sent vinyls to people in the mail.

Ryan O'Hara:

You know what those people do? They hang those vinyls up with their office. Someone says, "What's with the vinyl. Do you like that band?" And they're like, " Yeah, this company bought it from..." Now you’re not just breaking that one prospect. You're breaking into that whole target account. That's I'm getting at. It's, you can actually capitalize on this stuff. The other interesting part is you're not just going after a person anymore, those days are dead. If you're in this webinar and you're not doing account based selling, you're probably not getting good response rates.

Ryan O'Hara:

It's very difficult to do. If you do account based selling, you're going to go after an entire account and you want to reach out to many people, do a tactic for the entire company. That's another thing you can do. One of the example Stu wrote about was when I was at Dine, I actually made music videos for prospects, and we made them for the whole account. Some of the videos that we sent, we made one for Expedia, Living Social. We made one for... I’m trying to remember all the accounts CareerBuilder.

Ryan O'Hara:

We made these for these companies, and I only sent them the three people, but they got 1600 and 2000 views each because they were bouncing them around internally at the company. That's what you could do. You can break into more than one account. And if I'm not selling you hard on this, I'll tell you this. Why are you going to go email a hundred people and hear back from three people when you can email 30 people and hear back from four or five of them and maybe have two or three of them starting to do a knock every day.

Ryan O'Hara:

That's a good month of work. That's my rant for that. I hope I circled back. Did I tackle it, Rishi? Did I answer the question?

Rishi Mathur:

You answered every question we possibly could have asked to Stu ever.

Stu Heinecke:

I want to give a little acknowledgement. Ryan, you're one of the best out there that I've seen. That I've met at using, I guess what I would call deep personalization, but more than just that. You're a wizard at this stuff. I love hearing your stories.

Ryan O'Hara:

Thank you, by the way. And I honestly, I loved reading your book because it gave me new ideas that you don't have to... For example, I started thinking way more about direct mail. I know some people out there use Sendoso or some mailing app or PFL or something. You can do a lot of really cool stuff with direct mail right now it's a little hard, but you could still do stuff digitally. I'll tell you another story that we did. Some people have probably heard this, that follow my work and have seen this, but if you've heard this before, I apologize.

Ryan O'Hara:

There is a story once where, when I was a young kid and I was prospecting one day, I came into the office and one of the reps that I had at our company had really long hair, he's from South Carolina, his name was Brian McCall. He talked like this. This is what his voice sounded like. I love Brian. He's a really good guy, but Brian grew his hair out, because he was from South Carolina and living up in New Hampshire and it was freezing in the winter time, always up here. It was around April; I was around this time of the year.

Stu Heinecke:

Like a built-in hat.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, he was using-

Stu Heinecke:

[Crosstalk 00:52:39] cool.

Ryan O'Hara:

He had a big bushy beard and long hair that he grew for the winter and I called him because he did come to a meeting that we had. And when I called him, I was like, "Brian, we were supposed to be at this meeting. What's up?" He's like, "I'm getting a haircut right now. They're in the middle of it. They've cut the sides. I have a mullet." And I was like, "Grab the corporate card, expense that haircut, let's get you down into the office." What we ended up doing is Brian who's into photography, took a bunch of really funny pictures of himself in a tank top looking like a dirt bag.

Ryan O'Hara:

And they're really funny. Basically, he took these hi-def photos because he's into photography of him doing random poses. He had one crushing a red bull can and he's like, "Red Bull gives you wings." But he had funny captions. One he's pointing the Notre light and he wrote responds in milliseconds pours a Notre light and he responds in seconds, pours in seconds. And we sent these to Notre Light. We sent one to Red Bull to get a meeting with them. All we did was write an email and say, "Hey, we made this poster for you.

Ryan O'Hara:

If you want us to print it out and send it to you, just respond back." And we had crazy responses from people. One of our best hops we got for people that are in the gaming world, Blizzard Activision actually booked a meeting with us because we did one with Brian in sunglasses, zoomed up on his face and just said, "Don't play games with your infrastructure." Really serious.

Ryan O'Hara:

Another company printed out the poster and hung it on their wall. You can do these things that scale where you're tweaking things by industry or you're tweaking things by the ideal customer profile, but if you're going to do something zoomed out, I recommend tack me by the account because then you'll get some stuff that's viral a little bit more internally in a company. Long rant over. Thank you.

Stu Heinecke:

There we go.

Ryan O'Hara:

Stu, what are-

Stu Heinecke:

[Crosstalk 00:54:19].

Ryan O'Hara:

[Crosstalk 00:54:20]. Go ahead.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. I was just going to say there's so many things, so many ways to approach this and again, I don't know. I'm going to just sound like a broken record at this. Have some fun with it and be human. Don't be a salesperson, be a human. Don't use automation, be human. Just reach out to people like you would friends. Just have fun with it. You were going to ask a question.

Ryan O'Hara:

I was going to say, we should go through some of the questions, Rishi, because we are getting close to wrap up time. It's 02:56. Let's fly through some of these.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah. One of the questions is with one-on-one right now. How would you go about getting these things to people if it's a tangible product, would someone really give you their home address?

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah, they are doing it. If it's something that they want, if it's something that's intriguing, then they are giving addresses. I'm not sure what he was thinking of sending, but books are a great thing to send for one. People are catching up on their reading, aren't they?

Rishi Mathur:

I always recommend something like a Stu Heinecke book.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. That's a great idea. And let's draw on that for a moment.

Rishi Mathur:

And we think about it.

Stu Heinecke:

Some people are sending out things that are, let's say survival kits. I don't know what the term is. Just something to keep your sanity. Someone was sending out just a sheet of bubble wrap so that people could pop it. Just get a little bit of aggression.

Ryan O'Hara:

How cheap is that too? That's super cheap and awesome.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. And how personalized is it? You don't have to put a lot of production into it.

Ryan O'Hara:

Brian asked a great question. He said, what was the subject line for your songs? I'll tell you what makes a good subject line for contact marketing if you're going to use email to follow up on something that you do. Make your subject line vague enough to draw and open and use curiosity, but relate back to the body. I don't make a subject line like your kid's at the nurse's office and I have your child because that'll piss the person off if you don't actually have that situation going on in the body of the email. Instead, make your subject line vague enough.

Ryan O'Hara:

Like for me, I just did song for first name, song for company name if I'm sending to more than one person. You just do little vague things and then make sure that the body email, hip hop block, huge fan of you because of X, Y, Z, something personalized. "We think we help you with prospecting, so I made this song for you. Hopefully you like it. What are your thoughts on talking?" And you don't have any replies to get back from that super easy.

Stu Heinecke:

One of my, best subject lines is, I just put their first name in, Ryan a cartoon about you. Of course, it has to be a cartoon about you, but that gets huge open rates.

Ryan O'Hara:

I love that.

Rishi Mathur:

We got time for one more question, go with Josh Ruffner Heels. I'm starting a new podcast and would love to know how Stu uses personality and personal experience in his work and has that ever tested the boundaries of what others considered risky?

Stu Heinecke:

Well, first of all, I just want to say first that podcasts and this... By the way, this was a blast. You guys put a lot more production into any Zoom call I've ever been on.

Ryan O'Hara:

That's pretty cool.

Stu Heinecke:

But if you're inviting people to interview for a podcast or a vlog or anything or a Zoom call round table, anything right now. It's a great way to connect with people because look at this. Afterward, we three are going to be best friends. We've been through something together and so just in general, I would say that they're a great way to connect, but I think you were asking about personality perhaps, or I'm not quite sure if it's about... Do you feel like you don't have the personality for this? And if that's the question, man, just have a conversation with people.

Stu Heinecke:

It's just interesting to discover what they have to say.

Ryan O'Hara:

Also, just something that I actually heard. By the way, I know some people have to drop off. Stu, are you cool doing a little afterhours?

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. I’m good for [inaudible 00:58:19]. I’m here for two hours.

Ryan O'Hara:

This isn't network TV, so we don't have to worry about-

Rishi Mathur:

[Crosstalk 00:58:23]. My contract says 3:00 PM, so I'd have to drop off.

Ryan O'Hara:

Let's do a little after hours, if people have to drop off, you can just jump to the end of the recording afterward. When we go live, there will be a recording of repeat. Let me tackle the personality thing for someone that asked that. Obviously, there's different types of personalities. Some people are introverts some people are extroverts, you have different comfort levels for you want to do. Some people are more creative. Some people are a little bit less creative on some stuff. I'm going to give you two recommendations that will help you get ideas.

Ryan O'Hara:

The first one is, do something that you're comfortable with, if you're not comfortable with being on a mic or being on a podcast or a Zoom, write a blog, go do a Q and A. Be like, "Hey, can I record a Q and A with you really quick and ask some questions?" Then throw that up on a blog post. You put that person in the blog, your marketing team throws that up on the site and tags that prospect in it. You think you're going to have trouble getting a meeting with them afterward? I don't think so. They're going to be like, "Holy crap. Yeah." We're all talented people at sales reps.

Ryan O'Hara:

We're all connectors. We're all people that love our prospects and love the companies we're going after, but we also are enthusiastic and experts in our space because we're in conversations all the time. If you're introverted, I recommend doing something over writing. You could do some cool stuff like that. Maybe you do something like drawing is something you could actually do as an introvert. Stu, you don't have to be extroverted.

Stu Heinecke:

I draw in restaurants and I don't know if I'm an introvert or extrovert at this point. I used to be an introvert, but I was going to say, look, if you're nervous about the interview and you're nervous about maybe running out of things to say or ask, or if the conversation is just going to hit a low, you can write out questions and you can do that ahead of time. Actually, that's a nice thing to do just to make sure that you stay on track, but never ever send the questions out to the guests ahead of time, because they will have thought and thought and thought about their answer.

Stu Heinecke:

You'll ask a question and then a half an hour later, they’ll finish that answer and then you can ask another question. The thing you want to do you want to make... It's like you're just hanging out with someone at a bar having a beer together. What would you say? You've just discovered that they’re doing interesting things. They've got interesting stories and said, "Oh my God. Tell me about that. Jeez. That sounds great. What were you thinking about when you did that?" I don't know. These things just come to you just like they would at a bar over a beer.

Rishi Mathur:

To be honest, Stu, that's a really good point because when I interview and I let people know the questions ahead of time, you’re right, they overthink the questions. They overthink and they want to answer every single point where it gets so confusing. I think you're right, but I also think that what you could also do is give them the topic and maybe a couple of bullet points, what you'll talk about. Therefore, they'll have an idea, but they'll not know the question, when the question comes up, they'll just be like, "All right, well now I have an understanding of what he's going for it and hit the direction."

Ryan O'Hara:

Hey, Rishi, one person asked, did we miss any tips besides not bothering people with their kids? I'm really trying to understand the content here, so please bear with me. I'll tell you something. One of the questions they were asking is, when's a good time to do a call and stuff. There's a ton of data out there. I think SalesLoft has put some data out there about this, Outreach has put some data. They have all their customer bases looking and saying when are people answering the calls.

Ryan O'Hara:

I definitely have heard afternoons are always better for phone calls, especially, I've heard some people say, if you do something right at five, 04:35 o'clock, it's a good time. For email, this is a really unorthodox thing if you're reaching out to executives. I've heard a really good time to email executives is Sunday night. There's a common practice among Fortune 500 companies where these CEOs and stuff they're checking email on Sunday night.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. Sunday evening and Saturday morning, early Saturday morning as well.

Ryan O'Hara:

Yeah, it's insane. You would never think to do it on a weekend, but it's actually not a bad time. And the cool part is they're not at the officer, not getting distracted with people yelling at them or asking them to do something and getting pulled into meetings. They’re going to be focused on their inbox at those times. It's not the only touch. You should still do touches during business hours, but take a stab at it. If you send something really cool for your first touch and you're talking about it and you haven't heard back, try a Saturday morning email, you can program it out early in Gmail or whatever app you're using. You can send an email and schedule a phone call.

Rishi Mathur:

Always do. Those are some great glasses, and the fact that you took them off.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. [inaudible 01:02:45] getting fun.

Ryan O'Hara:

Rishi, are there any other questions we want to go after?

Rishi Mathur:

Sure. Let's see. There was one other one, which was, how would you convince my manager who doesn't really believe in personalization, everything, but believes more in relevance, only personalization to our top accounts?

Ryan O'Hara:

Okay. I've totally have heard that before. Here's what I'm going to tell you. If you try what we're talking about here, and you get responses from your top accounts, your manager's not going to care what your activity is. And if they do, you should probably be looking for another job. I'll give you an example at LeadIQ, we're really tight with the job there as people. We've done a lot of training with them. If you buy our product, you get job analysis online training with us.

Ryan O'Hara:

They talk a lot about tiered accounts, tier C and B are for experimenting tier A is for, these are my A-player or my target accounts I'm going after. You can actually go through and if it's an eight plus account, personalize it, like we're talking about today. If it's A, B or C, you can do experimenting with your value prop. That's what they suggest. Only do it as an experiment, but the thing is when you're a company like ours, we really only care about the A accounts, anyway. Pretty much all our prospectors are handpicking accounts that they picked specifically that are target accounts.

Ryan O'Hara:

I think it's okay to just... Why are we going to bother wasting your IP reputation with sending emails that could potentially go to spam by blasting people and then not letting you reach out to those tier A accounts? That's my perspective on it. What do you think, Stu, I heard you say no?

Stu Heinecke:

Well, I want to jump in too, because one of the coolest stories I heard after How to Get a Meeting with Anyone came out, someone said, "I want to tell you my story.", And I'm going to shorten it up a lot just to say that he and his colleagues, they were required to do a hundred phone calls a day. This was a just cold call mill and they weren't getting anywhere. He decided, well, okay, you read my book and he decided what I'm going to do is I'm going to use deep personalization. I'm going to figure out what each person that I want to reach is into.

Stu Heinecke:

And I'm just going to do a few of them, just a handful of them. He reached out to the first guy, someone that they'd never been able to reach through their cold calling and discovered the guy was into cooking and kids and family and.... What was the... Well, anyway, cooking and family and technology. He had this custom apron made up with a Stanley C. Clark quote on it, had it embroidered on it. Sent it over-

Ryan O'Hara:

I remember reading about this. I remember reading this.

Stu Heinecke:

And he got right through. Then the next thing that happens is his colleagues start saying, well, wait a minute... The other SDRs are going, “How are you getting through? What's going on? Would you show us; would you teach us?" And sure. He's working with one of his colleagues and then they're working on one of the... There's another one that no one had been able to break through to, and they discovered the guy's really into falconry. I'm going to shorten it up. They sent him a falconry glove and got three deals from it.

Stu Heinecke:

Then the boss upstairs is saying, "What the hell is going on here? What are you guys doing?" They told him and Dom, the guy who was telling the story was promoted to sales manager of the company because of this. The point is that even though they had this KPI that you have to make a hundred phone calls a day, Dom found a way to also make another one, so 101, but this time it was with personalization and sending that apron out and that changed everything for him.

Stu Heinecke:

I would say, maybe the way to, sort of like what you've just said, Ryan, as well, try it and you'll convince your bo... If you're getting through and you're getting deals, what is your boss going to do saying, "No, let's not do it that way."?

Ryan O'Hara:

Right and you don't have to spend that much either to do some of this, it could be cheap. Go ahead, Rishi. Sorry.

Rishi Mathur:

Yeah. My parents are giving me the, wrap it up sign. They’re obviously the real producers of this whole thing. I actually had a really good question to ask here, which is, Stu, if you want to start with this one, my current manager is a dashboard warrior and only cares by activity. Latest advice he gave me is dump a hundred people in my cadence and just blast a template email. My project is in line with this. What would you do in this situation?

Stu Heinecke:

Well, I think... Ryan, you might've wanted to take this one too, because this thing of blasting people with email, it's a crowded channel. Get the hell out of crowded channels. They're too crowded, because they're so crowded they don't work. You don't show up that way. But then, Ryan, your point was, if you keep sending that stuff out, all that happens is emails from you go into spam folders. That's horrible. That's really wearing everybody down. If your boss is saying that, same advice I just gave, I guess you're going to have to do what your boss tells you.

Stu Heinecke:

Or maybe as Ryan said, get another place to work. But work smart on your own. Do a little bit of your own self-directed work and show your boss that actually, this is actually what creates results. Not clobbering people with irrelevant, automated spam emails.

Ryan O'Hara:

If you think about it, the way I look at it, no one ever remembers you for the things you don't do. Block off 10 minutes a day to pick one or two prospects, to do something really special with, get some results from that. You get one or two extra meetings a week at first, you'll get better at it as you do it, by the way. We call them better ideas. Even muscle memory will start to realize; this is a cool little angle I can do. Just make sure it's about the prospect and their interests first. Just block off.

Ryan O'Hara:

Start with 10 minutes a day, slowly it'll turn to 30 minutes a day and slowly it'll turn into an hour a day, and you'll start getting more meetings. And your bosses will be like, "What the hell are you doing to get these meetings?" And they're going to realize this doesn't work. Otherwise, if they're going to be someone that's like, "No, I don't want you to do that." Go somewhere else. I don't want to speak for someone, but there's someone on our team that worked at a big Fortune 500 company, actually, it was a publicly traded company before they worked for us.

Ryan O'Hara:

And his whole team got laid off and they never let them do any cool personalization stuff. He came and joined our company. Literally the second month he was here doing all this stuff we're talking about today, he booked 69 meetings in one month. Think of that for a second 69 and our quote is 15. That's a crazy perspective to think about focusing on this. He had been wanting to do this his whole life years. The grass is greener somewhere else. Email me personally, and I can give you some advice. Use your personal email if you want, it doesn't get tracked.

Ryan O'Hara:

We can talk a little bit. Maybe we can talk a little bit more about how to get you in a better situation. Also, we're hiring. Got to tell you that. We're hiring. You can come work here; we’re looking for ease in SDRs if you want to work here. We're going to wrap up now because Rishi's going to get kicked out of his parents' house and have to be outside in the streets and we both know that that's not good for him, right Stu?

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. I was wondering how his parents were doing actually. That answered the question.

Rishi Mathur:

They are fantastic and they may kick me out and they may be happier for doing that.

Ryan O'Hara:

Here's what we're going to do. We're going to send an email to people with the recording. It'll go out probably tomorrow. In that email, we're also going to have another training session that I did call the 60 actual prospecting tips in 60 minutes. It's very good. It's going to teach you a bunch of stuff that will help you. I recommended, I literally did this at other Fortune companies, really big companies had me do this training and they loved it and they've been doing it and getting good results. Go check it out. It's going to be free.

Ryan O'Hara:

You just have to click on a link when you get the email tomorrow. Stu, thank you for being on. Everyone please go get the book.

Stu Heinecke:

[Crosstalk 01:10:26].

Ryan O'Hara:

Go get the book.

Stu Heinecke:

Yeah. Get these books. That's right. I got them too. There we go.

Rishi Mathur:

I don’t have them. That's messed up.

Stu Heinecke:

Hey, listen. Thank you so much. This was a blast. As I said at the top of the show, I've never seen a Zoom call like this. This was a blast. Thanks so much for having me on.

Rishi Mathur:

Appreciate it.

Stu Heinecke:

Thank you very much. We'll answer some questions for people also, if they want just email back when we send the email tomorrow. Thank you, Stu, very much for coming on. See you guys.